22$ FO , what to do with this flop?

[jdubs]

yuck:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button (t1285)
SB (t1110)
Hero (t1115)
UTG (t1960)
UTG+1 (t1410)
MP1 (t1105)
MP2 (t3900)
MP3 (t1465)
CO (t1590)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A.
UTG raises to t120, UTG+1 calls t120, 2 folds, MP3 calls t120, CO calls t120, 2 folds, Hero calls t90.

Flop: (t615) 5, 9, Q (5 players)
Hero bets t600, UTG raises to t1840, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls t395 (All-In).

Turn: (t3450) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3450) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3450

Results in white below:
Hero has Qs Ad (one pair, queens).
UTG has Kc Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins t2605. UTG wins t845.

[A10Chief]

I think leading that flop is mandatory, and calling that push is mandatory based on odds and only having 395 behind. If you led the flop for less, you could have folded to the push, because you're not crushing anything a decent opponent would raise UTG and push on this flop. It screams out nut flush draw, but after I thought about it, AA-QQ play it this way too. In practice I probably play it very similar except villain catches a king on the river

Edit: Is there anyone who would consider folding preflop with a read?

[Sprayed]

I couldn't fold pre because of the pot odds. Too much dead money. I lead out and know that I'm getting all of my chips in here. Gotta win all those chips.

[thenonsequitur]

Flop loooks like a good time to push IMO.

[KoRnholio]

What do you know about UTG's raising habits? If he's been raising light or on small/medium pairs in early position, a push preflop could be good. When it gets to us in the BB, it's about a 500 chip pot and we have just 1,100 left.

As played, you have to lead this flop. Your bet/call all in is alright, since I can't see you getting away from this once you make the bet. I'd probably just push the flop.

[scarface737]

u have to push with aq he could very easily have jj or nut flush draw and the dead money in the pot forces u to play for all ur chips unless this guy is tight as a small condum on my dick.

[Cavelli2003]

lol, thats one way to put it scarface, lol

[drmcboy]

push pre flop, unless you have super tight read on UTG.

As played, I think you can check fold flop. You don't play AQo 4 handed to flop TP on a monotone board. You can easily have the worst hand and be in agaisnt the draw here.

If you're playing, push flop.

[A10Chief]

push pre flop, unless you have super tight read on UTG.

Is this b/c of stack size, position, both, or something else I'm missing?

[Sprayed]

push pre flop, unless you have super tight read on UTG.

Is this b/c of stack size, position, both, or something else I'm missing?

He might be saying this because you would be oop after the flop. Lots of dead money there and a good move to win it all preflop. However, you know someone is coming along for the ride.

[A10Chief]

[quote="SprayedHe might be saying this because you would be oop after the flop. Lots of dead money there and a good move to win it all preflop. However, you know someone is coming along for the ride.[/quote]

And if they come along for the ride you are going to be on hurting status most of the time. That's why I was wondering if this is really a good spot to be pushing, even w/ the dead chips.

[drmcboy]

taking a flip is fine. If they fold, so much the better. This is a big call for someone to make with 88, especially if they don't close the action. Unless it is UTG you will almost never see AK or QQ plus here.

The bonus reason to push is we don't have to figure out what to do if we flop TP on this board.

[johnny_fish]

Flop lead sucks.

Unless UTG is very tight, it's a push preflop imo. Dead money, yummy.

As played, check/fold flop. If checked though, push turn.

[thenonsequitur]

As played, check/fold flop.

This makes no sense. In fact this sounds like a terrible way to play this flop (only bet/fold looks worse than check/fold to me). Why would you check/fold TPTK here? As played pre-flop, flop looks like an easy push to me.

[gus27]

I push pre flop here too.
You may be behind UTG, but i would put that at about 50/50. The rest of the callers i would have to say you are a slight favorite or a slight dog, I wouldn't worry about 3 people flat calling with QQ,KK, or AA, and even if they call with QQ, or KK you still have outs. I would even go as far to say that I would discount AA from UTG, he raised 4x bb UTG, and this is probably a 22 180 right? players like to minraise or 3xbb AA UTG at that level UTG.

since MP2 is out of this hand your 1115 threatens the "tournament life" of the remaining players, push.

[jdubs]

I can see how pushing the flop makes sense, as the bet I led out with commits me to the pot anyways. Not sure about the push preflop with AQ? AQ is a hand that bugs the hell out of me still though.....

[drmcboy]

would you be sure about it if was AK? What makes AK that much better than AQ in this spot? the reasons to push pre flop are covered in the post by gus.

Your comment makes me think you are not willing to take nearly enough chances to accumulate.

[jdubs]

would you be sure about it if was AK? What makes AK that much better than AQ in this spot? the reasons to push pre flop are covered in the post by gus.

Your comment makes me think you are not willing to take nearly enough chances to accumulate.

You are probably right! This is an area I have been working on, and have been thinking alot about lately. The post about the A9 hand ("MTT problem") relates to this issue also. I am beginning to see how accumulating chips is paramount in MTTs, perhaps more than mere survival. This idea I read also in lindgren's book "Making the Final Table", and seems to be a main point he addresses in the book. I don't own it, but probably will pick it up soon. I seem to always be the guy with the mid to short stack in the later stages of an MTT, and I need to be the guy with a big stack.

[johnny_fish]

I seem to always be the guy with the mid to short stack in the later stages of an MTT, and I need to be the guy with a big stack.

The big stacks are mostly lucky loose donkeys.. Medium stack is fine too, as long as you got some chips to work with. Just don't waste any EV along the way (and take cEV neutral flips if you're getting short).