Passive with AK/AQ/AJ?

[magneticskull]

Having had a serious swing/variance of crippling losses with AK and it's less talented brethren (AQ/AJ) I have begun experimenting with a new (temporary?) strategy to get me past my newly developed superstition about Big Slick...

I limp them PF and dump them if Flop doesn't hit.
(Hit = A or K high flop with AK, Q high flop with AQ, J high with AJ or better, no PF raisors)
I don't call all ins PF (even from known donks) unless it is late in the tourney and opp is shortstack or stealing alot.

All other decent hands I play normally, ie: PF Raise in position, limp <88 pp for set value...

The real irony is that I still play a hand like JT or even T9 suited with a raise, but limp AK... intellectually I know this is somehow wrong, but I've been getting CREAMED not letting go of AK/AQ when they doesn't hit, trying to C-bet someone elses made flop, etc...

discuss...

[TLR]

I think long term you are losing the value of pretty strong hands because you play them too passively.
AJ is a borderline hand, and there are multiple sitations when I think limping/folding it is correct.
However AK and AQ is position most of the times if you narrow the field to one other opponent preflop you are best after the flop even if you dont improve.

[Warpe]

You'll change your mind about limping AK/AQ after you get stacked a few times by limpers with junk catching bottom two on the flop.

[WildBobAA]

You should play them passively in the early levels (I don't play AJ at all in the first 2 levels) and them jam then once the blinds get high.

[IowaSkinsFan]

AK and AQ I seem to invest way too much in early also, but you gotta play them aggressively, just don't get to attached to them.

[Xanadu]

Bet them strong in the correct position preflop, c-bet when proper (Probably about 70% of the time heads up you get a good flop for a c-bet, and maybe 45%ish when 3-way). Bet more when you hit, and don't lose your stack without at least 2pair unless you have a strong read. Generally slow down when your flop bet is called with TPTK. You should make good modest gains with AK-AJ both when you hit and miss the flop following this rough guideline. When you hit 2pair and better you can start playing for stacks and larger gains. Regardless, you need to match your aggression to the calling standards of your opponents, so get some reads.

[magneticskull]

Would someone like to comment on using passive play to combat tilt with particular hands, psychology-wise?

Also as related to SNG or MTT specific play vs. Ring? In Ring, every move is calculated on + or - EV, whereas the tourney format blurs that line...

WildBob,
This is exactly what I mean. Early-mid: passive or dump, late: back to our regularly scheduled aggressive play pre-flop etc...

I need to fine tune my c-bets a bit. I tend to pot it when maybe less will do?
What do people think about the amount of info you get on a 1/3 - 1/2 pot bet vs. pot sized ?

-M

[pokernewb]

Xanadu, how would you define a good flop for a c-bet? I'm not really sure when to do this.

[Sprayed]

With hands like AK, I use to have the mindset when open raising to always raise 5xbb or more early in a tourney to push everyone out. However, what I found was this would make the pot big and if I was oop or in position and I missed the flop I was having to c-bet pretty big to make it believable. In turn, this made it very difficult to let the hand go to aggression because my stack would be small and I would then be fighting an upward battle from there. What I do now is I almost always open raise to just 2.5xbb or 3xbb. This way if I get a few callers or just one/two, I can c-bet and not be afraid to let the hand go to aggression.

I normally c-bet when up against just one or two people regardless of the flop. Against more than two, I will then assess if the flop is dangerous, flush/str8 draw heavy, and go from there. If I have reads like “likes to check raise, plays any two suited, Ax/pp master” and the board is scary I will probably not c-bet and take a free card. If your opponents are avid stations, c-bets are not worth it as well. Against stations you have to have a hand and bet for value.

Magneticskull, you’re just running bad. I wouldn’t advocate playing big hands like AK/AQ passively in order to reverse your misfortune. Raise them for value and don’t be afraid to play them. I wouldn’t invest too much in them early in the tourney where it makes it difficult to lay them down.