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bankroll/cashout strategy for low limit SNG's

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  1. #1

    Default bankroll/cashout strategy for low limit SNG's

    Found this on pocketfives.com.
    I think its a good way to control your bankroll and cashout consistently.

    Also at what point do you cashout at and how do you work out when tocash out? Be interesting to see how others control their bankroll and at what point they cash out at.

    ARTICLE FROM www.pocketfives.com:

    The top 5% of online players in terms of ability, are not the top 5% players in terms of total cashouts. In fact, the biggest losers playing today are some of the best players, playing one limit too high, or without bankroll discipline. My goal with the following article is to help you become part of the latter group, the winners.

    The sng players, and there are many of us, have a hard time identifying what level they should be playing at to maximize their profits. A mistake that many players make is not paying themselves along the way while trying to accumulate a bankroll for their desired level of play.< BR>
    I recommend first that you identify first whether or not you can beat the $5 sng games. Over time, this should become apparent to you. If you cannot, playing sngs as a source of income is out of the question.

    Anyone with a bankroll of $300 or lower, in my opinion, should be playing $5.50-$6.50 sngs. This is well above previously stated bankroll requirements written by Fox and others on this site. The reason for this is that the requirements set forth by Fox and others assume you are always beating the game, where in fact, many players go through phases of poor play that make them losers in the short term. For instance, a player with a 30% roi can fall into a slump of playing bad hands, overvaluing hands, and doing things that are getting themselves in trouble, making them short-term losing players.

    Once you have attained $300 or more, a move up to $10-12 sngs is justified, until your bankroll is at $1,000. Should you drop below $300, your first move is to drop down levels. At this point, it's time to pay yourself back. Now that you have completely eliminated the risk of ruin, you want to take funds from POKER and put them into LIFE. So the strategy is to "tax" yourself 10% of GROSS winnings from here forward, to be earmarked for withdrawal, and to withdraw the funds immediately as soon as you reach the site's minimum withdrawal requirement. This will ensure that you don't have the temptation to put this money back into your poker bankroll when you hit a skid. You will begin to feel better as you pay yourself, and as a result you will play prime poker, hoping to add to your withdrawal total. You will be playing with a purpose.

    The other thing that this accomplishes is that it becomes harder to get to $1,000 this way. When you get to $1,000, you can begin to play $22-27 sngs. In order to even get to $1,000, you will have to have about a 20% roi at the $10-12 level to beat the rake, the "tax", and have money above that. If you can beat the $10-12 games at 20%, you are ready for the next level. Also, by waiting until you are at $1,000 to move up, you are ensuring a big enough sample size at your current level that you aren't being affected in your judgment due to short-term good variance. I think moving up to the $50 level requires about a $2500 bankroll. I'll stop here because this post is intended for the low-limit grinder.

    Continue to "tax" yourself 10% and set high bankroll requirements until you don't feel you can beat the next level up. When this happens, simply start "taxing" yourself 50% instead, and become a better student of the game, reading a lot, and getting new ideas, maybe signing up for an online poker school, until you feel ready to conquer the world again.

    Put a stop-loss on yourself of 6 buyins/day at your current level, or stop playing at the first sign of frustration. You don't ever want to damage your hard work by playing outside your bankroll or chasing losses.

    If you follow these strategies, you will never feel too much pressure to win a game, you will have a constant, small income coming in, and you will feel better about yourself, allowing yourself to play to the best of your ability.

    After all, the way we keep score isn't the level we play at, it's the number of dollars coming in.
  2. #2
    anyone?
  3. #3
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    Pretty standard for not going busto. 30-50 buy-ins.

    You could scale this back, BR is mentioned in the sticky.

    As for cashing out, all he says about it is "tax". WTF does this even mean?

    Don't tax at the $10, you can't make a living there. If you 12-table and run 20% ROI you would make $25 an hour. This is barely reasonable I believe.
  4. #4
    Yeah I was just wondering how everyone cashes out.

    Do you cash out all winnings over your bankroll "cap"?
    e.g. cash out all winnings if your bankroll is over say 30 buy ins?

    Do most folk just keep playing building a bigger bankroll so they can move up levels?
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Random_Hero
    Yeah I was just wondering how everyone cashes out.

    Do you cash out all winnings over your bankroll "cap"?
    e.g. cash out all winnings if your bankroll is over say 30 buy ins?

    Do most folk just keep playing building a bigger bankroll so they can move up levels?
    Since I play for fun and not money, and (hope to) improve, this is what I do. Don't think I have ever cashed out any of my BR.
  6. #6
    ok cheers.

    I suppose once you get to a higher level you can start to cash out.
  7. #7
    This may not be the correct way to manage my bankroll, but...

    I will have a x40 buy-in's for whatever level i'm playing at. At the $5 @ PokerRoom i've got a $220 bankroll. After every 4 weeks i cashout my winning's back to my bank account.

    If i intend to move up levels (like i'm doing now - $16 @Stars) i will continue playing at the current level until i've reached my target bankroll for the $16's = $640.

    If my ROI remains at the target level i set, 15% - 25% then i'll keep cashing out every 4 weeks, unless i feel i want to move up another level. In that case i'll just play to amass my new bankroll.

    If my bankroll took heavy losses, but i felt it was just down to extreme variance, and not to me punching above my weight, i would probably re-deposit at the $5's, but move back down a level and rebuild my bankroll if this occured at the $16's, then move back up again.

    It would take the mother of all downswing's to lose my $220 bankroll at the $5's.

    While i'm happily managing my bankroll like this, my monthly winning's are gaining interest in my bank account.

    No doubt my management is fatally flawed.
  8. #8
    johnny_fish's Avatar
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    Don't cash out until you're properly rolled for the highest level that you can beat.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Random_Hero
    Yeah I was just wondering how everyone cashes out.

    Do you cash out all winnings over your bankroll "cap"?
    e.g. cash out all winnings if your bankroll is over say 30 buy ins?

    Do most folk just keep playing building a bigger bankroll so they can move up levels?
    I don't know about everyone else on the site, but I'm fairly skint, and I don't see the point of having a lot of money in my poker account and nothign in my pocket. For me, poker is a bit of fun, and also pays for beer money

    I'm basically playing $10 tables at the moment, using 10 buy-ins as a BR. Every time I double my bankroll, I cash out half of it. In the last week I've cashed out £150.

    I know this makes me a million miles away from being a pro, and many people will tell me I'm an idiot for not manging my bankroll properly. However, I'm working in a bar at the moment (no jobs for philosophy graduates) and earning around £200 a week. To me, an extra £150 makes a big difference.

    I think it all depends on your circumstances, and what you wish to get out of poker. I'd love to build a huge bankroll and take on the best at the WSOP and make a living out of poker. However, for the moment, cashing out for small profits regularly is more important.
  10. #10
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron_greenback
    poker is a bit of fun, and also pays for beer money
    Basically if you're happy with your situation it doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by baron_greenback
    I'm basically playing $10 tables at the moment, using 10 buy-ins as a BR. Every time I double my bankroll, I cash out half of it. In the last week I've cashed out £150.
    ...
    However, for the moment, cashing out for small profits regularly is more important.
    Or you could look at it this way. I'll take out $50 of every $100 I earn. Now in 3 weeks or so you would have $400 in your on-line account and could play $20 SnGs instead. Now you would be making almost twice as much as week.

    Nothing wrong with viewing poker purely as a hobby. But using some sound investing strategy while playing your hobby could offer much greater returns.
  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_fish
    Don't cash out until you're properly rolled for the highest level that you can beat.
    That's why my br never exceeds 1k.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by swiggidy
    Quote Originally Posted by baron_greenback
    poker is a bit of fun, and also pays for beer money
    Basically if you're happy with your situation it doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by baron_greenback
    I'm basically playing $10 tables at the moment, using 10 buy-ins as a BR. Every time I double my bankroll, I cash out half of it. In the last week I've cashed out £150.
    ...
    However, for the moment, cashing out for small profits regularly is more important.
    Or you could look at it this way. I'll take out $50 of every $100 I earn. Now in 3 weeks or so you would have $400 in your on-line account and could play $20 SnGs instead. Now you would be making almost twice as much as week.

    Nothing wrong with viewing poker purely as a hobby. But using some sound investing strategy while playing your hobby could offer much greater returns.
    That's true, but then 5 weeks after that I could be moving up to $30 sngs, and 5 weeks after that $40 sngs.......

    I think you have to find a cashout strategy that suits your budget. At the moment I'm personally not earning a great deal in my job, so can't afford to be going on huge downswings on poker, and I like to cash-out regularly to uplment my income.

    However, once I get a job linked to my degree that pays more, I can afford to step up a level and build more of a bankroll.

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