Need some thoughts and analysis on 2 hands I played

[pokerroomace]

I just played a $5.50 MTT at PokerRoom.com. It started with 408 and I finished 23rd and won $15.30. Top 40 were paid and I would have won £20.50 if I had finished 20th. I was knocked out after about 2.5 hrs.

Here are 2 major hands:

Hand 1:

Seat 1: OoziGoozi ($6,958 in chips)
Seat 2: pavavev ($8,718 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero [AH,AC] ($17,470 in chips)
Seat 4: ZgRoS ($18,920 in chips)
Seat 5: Steve AA ($15,196 in chips)
Seat 6: timon83 ($8,403 in chips)
Seat 7: ComingAgain ($21,170 in chips)
Seat 9: robrr2002 ($15,308 in chips)
Seat 10: TomRookie ($13,553 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
robrr2002 posts blind ($300), TomRookie posts blind ($600).

PRE-FLOP
OoziGoozi folds, pavavev calls $600, Hero bets $2,100, ZgRoS folds, Steve AA calls $2,100, timon83 calls $2,100, ComingAgain folds, robrr2002 folds, TomRookie calls $1,500, pavavev calls $1,500.

FLOP [board cards 2D,5D,KD ]
TomRookie checks, pavavev checks, Hero checks, Steve AA checks, timon83 bets $6,303 and is all-in, TomRookie calls $6,303, pavavev folds, Hero folds, Steve AA calls $6,303.

TURN [board cards 2D,5D,KD,AS ]
TomRookie checks, Steve AA checks.

RIVER [board cards 2D,5D,KD,AS,6S ]
TomRookie checks, Steve AA checks.

SHOWDOWN
TomRookie shows [ QS,KH ]
Steve AA mucks cards [ QD,QH ]
timon83 mucks cards [ JS,KS ]
TomRookie wins $29,709.

SUMMARY
Dealer: ComingAgain
Pot: $29,709
OoziGoozi, loses $0
pavavev, loses $2,100
Hero, loses $2,100
ZgRoS, loses $0
Steve AA, loses $8,403
timon83, loses $8,403
ComingAgain, loses $0
robrr2002, loses $300
TomRookie, bets $8,403, collects $29,709, net $21,306

Hand 2:

Seat 3: Hero [10S,5D] ($18,070 in chips)
Seat 4: ZgRoS ($16,520 in chips)
Seat 5: janzi15 ($29,327 in chips)
Seat 6: DuvA86 ($10,600 in chips)
Seat 7: ComingAgain ($36,468 in chips)
Seat 8: Northman33 ($18,427 in chips)
Seat 9: robrr2002 ($21,108 in chips)
Seat 10: TomRookie ($53,495 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
Hero posts blind ($600), ZgRoS posts blind ($1,200).

PRE-FLOP
janzi15 calls $1,200, DuvA86 folds, ComingAgain folds, Northman33 folds, robrr2002 folds, TomRookie folds, Hero calls $600, ZgRoS checks.

FLOP [board cards 10H,5H,3D ]
Hero bets $2,400, ZgRoS calls $2,400, janzi15 folds.

TURN [board cards 10H,5H,3D,5C ]
Hero checks, ZgRoS bets $4,000, Hero calls $4,000.

RIVER [board cards 10H,5H,3D,5C,8S ]
Hero checks, ZgRoS bets $2,400, Hero bets $4,800, ZgRoS bets $6,520 and is all-in, Hero calls $4,120.

SHOWDOWN
ZgRoS shows [ 10C,10D ]
Hero shows [ 10S,5D ]
ZgRoS wins $34,240.

SUMMARY
Dealer: TomRookie
Pot: $34,240
Hero, loses $16,520
ZgRoS, bets $16,520, collects $34,240, net $17,720
janzi15, loses $1,200
DuvA86, loses $0
ComingAgain, loses $0
Northman33, loses $0
robrr2002, loses $0
TomRookie, loses $0

What do you think about them? The first hand is very interesting - I wonder how I should have played it. I think I should have bet the flop. But when I don’t - should I fold?
The 2nd I don’t think I could have gotton away from it and I think going allin is what I was hoping for. But what do you think about how I played the hand? It was so hard to put him on TT that hand - but even if I could have put him on TT - I’m not getting away from it. The only way I can get away from it is if a heart (and I don’t hit my full house) comes on the turn and he bets allin. But then I still might have called.

[drmcboy]

1) bump to 4x, maybe 5 if raises are often being called like this. I would just shove the flop. Flopped flushes are rare, but you have to assume someone is drawing.
2) cold deck, you should go broke here. even with the river action he can easily have 33.

I would have won £20.50 if I had finished 20th

this bothers me. if you're sad you didn't finish 20th, you shouldn't be playing the MTT.

[pokerroomace]

I would have won £20.50 if I had finished 20th

this bothers me. if you're sad you didn't finish 20th, you shouldn't be playing the MTT.

lol. That didn't bother me at all. I just wanted to give you an understanding of where I was at when I got knocked out. That extra $5 meant pennies to me. Even $15 finish was nearly worthless. I was playing for the final table and I would not have been happy with anything else. Finishing ITM was nice, but definitely wasn't anything special.

Anymore thoughts? I really want some views on my pocket aces hand. I think it was badly played by me postflop. Preflop I didn't realise I'd get that many callers. I think I should have raised 4-5x BB. The reason that I didn't was because throughout the tourney I had been making 2.5xBB PF instead of my usual 3xBB raise PF. I add an extra BB to my bet for every limper that is already in. So I raised 3.5xBB. I should have raised more. Maybe 5xBB.

[pokerroomace]

In my AA hand. I have a 49% chance of winning the hand. So my tournament life is at risk. But I'm getting brilliant odds and I thought that I could still finish high up in the tournament without the extra chips. Also, I thought that I might already be behind in the hand. I thought someone may have hit trips or a flush. And I knew for sure the best possible situation for me would be a 50-50 - which it was.

But still - having said all this - I did have incredible odds to call and I should have done so.

[THaC]

Hide results when you post a hand - it gives you more accurate advice. In both hands, you played well.

Having AA on a monotone flop with that many people in the pot, you have not a great chance of winning. I would've raised to 2700 if 2100 was your standard raise since there was a limper.

2nd hand - cold deck. It happens, if you don't go broke here, you misplayed it.

[pokerroomace]

Hide results when you post a hand - it gives you more accurate advice. In both hands, you played well.

Having AA on a monotone flop with that many people in the pot, you have not a great chance of winning. I would've raised to 2700 if 2100 was your standard raise since there was a limper.

2nd hand - cold deck. It happens, if you don't go broke here, you misplayed it.

What? You like my play on the 1st hand even though I'm getting huge odds and I have over a 40% chance of winning the hand?
Would you have bet the flop with the ace or just checked it like I did? Betting the flop commits you to the hand.

My standard PF bet would have been 1500. So with 1 limper I bet 2100. I'm not going to bet 2.5xBB PF anymore. I'm just going to stick to my usual 3xBB PF bet. 2.5xBB looks to weak and I get too many callers.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Hand 2: personally I dump that for the SB, there is only one limper and you are only getting 5 to 1 on your completion. I really think that is an obvious fold, and I'm not just saying that because of the result. You are only playing for two pair or trips, otherwise it is a c/f flop. there's a 2% chance of that happening (two pair or trips), and I don't feel that implied odds are good enough.

[THaC]

Hide results when you post a hand - it gives you more accurate advice. In both hands, you played well.

Having AA on a monotone flop with that many people in the pot, you have not a great chance of winning. I would've raised to 2700 if 2100 was your standard raise since there was a limper.

2nd hand - cold deck. It happens, if you don't go broke here, you misplayed it.

What? You like my play on the 1st hand even though I'm getting huge odds and I have over a 40% chance of winning the hand?
Would you have bet the flop with the ace or just checked it like I did? Betting the flop commits you to the hand.

With the ace of the suit on board, if the table's active I may checkraise allin to trap more money in the pot. When you checked this hand, and a guy shoves, and another player flat calls - your one pair with no redraw is 95% no good.

[pokerroomace]

Hand 2: personally I dump that for the SB, there is only one limper and you are only getting 5 to 1 on your completion. I really think that is an obvious fold, and I'm not just saying that because of the result. You are only playing for two pair or trips, otherwise it is a c/f flop. there's a 2% chance of that happening (two pair or trips), and I don't feel that implied odds are good enough.

i strongly disagree with you. first of all there was no way i'm getting away from this hand postflop. second of all, the fact that i could have folded my hand PF doesn't change the situation and you cannot say that i lost my stack because of the call PF.

also, i disagree with what you say about folding PF. i have more than a 2% chance of winning the hand. you do know that there it is possible to win a hand even with a 10 hi or top, middle or bottom pair, right?

i could have won that pot if the flop came 259 or even 249. in hindsight i couldn't have because one of my opponents had TT, but a lot of the time i can take that pot away from my opponents. i could either probe bet the flop if it looks harmless or i could bet the turn if it is checked round. if i hit the board at all and the flop doesn't look dangerous then i can win the pot on the flop

[swiggidy]

With a read that opponents are weak/tight post-flop a SB completion would be standard. Generally you want to let this go and not complete. Your effective stack size is only 20x your bet, and 10x the BB.

Most flopps are going to have overs to the T.

[pokerroomace]

With a read that opponents are weak/tight post-flop a SB completion would be standard. Generally you want to let this go and not complete. Your effective stack size is only 20x your bet, and 10x the BB.

Most flopps are going to have overs to the T.

OK. I'll bare this in mind. But also, my effective stack is 30x the bet and 15x the BB. My stack is 18k not 12k.
And btw, I felt I could definitely take the pot away from ZgRoS and it may be a little harder to take from janzi15, but I knew he wasn't a maniacal player and there was high chance that the pot was mine if he missed the flop.

[thenonsequitur]

also, i disagree with what you say about folding PF. i have more than a 2% chance of winning the hand. you do know that there it is possible to win a hand even with a 10 hi or top, middle or bottom pair, right?

Problem with flopping a split pair with T5 is that you frequently won't know when you're ahead or by how much, and being out of position only hurts. So those winning chances aren't very relevant. With T5, really your next best thing after two pair or trips isn't a pair but a high end or middle of an OESD (something like 467 or 789). I think your chance of winning is >2%, but with just one limper, your hand is still not good enough to complete here, even against weak opponents IMO.

[pokerroomace]

also, i disagree with what you say about folding PF. i have more than a 2% chance of winning the hand. you do know that there it is possible to win a hand even with a 10 hi or top, middle or bottom pair, right?

Problem with flopping a split pair with T5 is that you frequently won't know when you're ahead or by how much, and being out of position only hurts. So those winning chances aren't very relevant. With T5, really your next best thing after two pair or trips isn't a pair but a high end or middle of an OESD (something like 467 or 789). I think your chance of winning is >2%, but with just one limper, your hand is still not good enough to complete here, even against weak opponents IMO.

OK thanks. I'll take your advice on board. Is this advice from a good player or someone that doesn't know what there talking about? 3 guys have said it so I think you are probably right.

PS - if I flop top 2 pair I do know where I'm at. I've basically flopped the nuts and I'm willing to put all my chips in on that hand. so what do you mean when you say I won't know where I'm at?

[thenonsequitur]

OK thanks. I'll take your advice on board. Is this advice from a good player or someone that doesn't know what there talking about? 3 guys have said it so I think you are probably right.

I'm not a great player, but I am a winning player. Just offering my 2 cents. I could be wrong.

PS - if I flop top 2 pair I do know where I'm at. I've basically flopped the nuts and I'm willing to put all my chips in on that hand. so what do you mean when you say I won't know where I'm at?

You misread what I wrote. I said if you flop a single split pair, it will be difficult to know where you're at. With two pair, yeah, it's much easier.

Also, for the record, I don't completely hate calling T5 here, I just think it's a little -EV.