Is there more to winning MTT's than avoiding bad beats?

[handsomestan]

Hi guys

I'm just new to FTR, but am an experienced B&M NLHE ring player.

I've recently started playing at PartyPoker to specifically develop my SNG and MTT game.

I am quickly learning the art of SNG's and turning a regular profit there, however I am struggling with MTTs. While I have no problem stealing blinds and small pots, along with the occasional big one, I seem to run into that single nasty hand that cripples or eliminates me from the tourney.

I can be cruising along with double the average number of chips, approaching the bubble, when someone pushes with TPTK, I call with a set, and he hits runner runner straight. Or I flop middle set and run square into the guy who flopped top set. I go from having a stack 15xbb down to 2xbb in one hand, and its almost impossible to get back in the game.

This is not meant to be a bad beat rant - that's part of the game - but more a question to the experienced MTT players out there: hands like I've mentioned are always going to happen, and in a tourney with 200+ players these situations are bound to occur many times.

Is winning a MTT simply a matter of avoiding these unfortunate hands? Can you win a MTT without getting very lucky on a couple of hands? To the guys who regular make final tables, how are you avoiding situations like this? Or are they simply unavoidable?

Reading your opponents can be very important, but when your table changes every 1 or 2 orbits its very hard to get good reads on anyone.

It's really frustrating me - I feel I'm skilled enough to make it to the final table, yet have barely cashed in any significant MTT yet.

I feel silly asking people how to avoid 'bad beats', but this is where I'm losing my chips!

Would love some insight from any experienced MTT players out there.

Cheers

[donkbee]

Everything needs to fall into place to win a large field MTT. Your good hands have to hold. You have to get lucky. You need to get cards at the right time. And you need to play well.

That's why these damn things are so high variance ... you're right, one bad hand can kick you out of the entire thing all at once, no matter how well you play.

It's kinda weird to feel like I need to be lucky to avoid being bad beaten for just one tourney ... but it's how I feel right now ... Don't worry, you're sure as hell not the only one frustrated right now.

Please Lee, stop doomswitching me.

[Phantaroth]

Everyone needs luck to win 1st in a MTT usually... It is a matter of needing less luck then sucky guy #3 so you win more often then he does. So you just have to play a lot and make sure you are not losing because of making too many mistakes too often.

[Sprayed]

Would you seriously fold a set to an all in bet? I don't think so. Keep doing what you're doing. If you are able to have a decent stack mid to late you're doing fine. The hand you spoke of will go the other way and help you cruise to the FT. It is important to be aggressive during the bubble if your table is playing tight and passive. Just keep getting your chips in with the best hand.

[drmcboy]

You are a dog to beat KK with AA five times in a row. People cannot accept it, but it is true.

[handsomestan]

It happened again.

$55 speed tourney on party.

I'm above average stack, but blinds getting heavy. is the best hand I've seen in a few orbits so I push. I get called by a guy with a pretty silly looking who rivers me with a straight. He needed a nine on the river and he bloody well hit it.

I finish 17th out of 70. Top 9 got paid.

Wanker!!

[drmcboy]

whining about losing a 60/40 in a speed tourney is just useless. locate the bad beat forum.

[aaokwitme]

I think we all have the same problem. The answer is sad but true, as was stated earlier AA is a DOG TO KK 5 out of 5 times in a row. And when you go allin with the best of it every time you will lose at least 1 out of the 5 times. My answer to this problem has been to try to keep an even keel as it were. In other words try to keep the pot small. The good news with this strategy is it lets you play rags too and when you hit with a holding of 45os, 46, 75, ECT these guys will pay you off. I hope I made an understandable post.

[Reidak]

Its simple, with all the players and all the chips in play, its hard to get enough of the total chips to really be safe. No matter how well you play youll need to avoid suckouts - and everyone here knows that.
This is coming from a MTT winner, i turned $5 into $1400. I got lucky a few times to stay alive. You need that luck to win, 19 out of 20 times i wont get that luck and ill come 150th out of 1500

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Do you win every cash game session where stacks are relatively deep and, the blinds are fixed, and you can readily pick you spots? It's not very hard to understand that with a structure of escalating blinds and decreasing chip equity that your variance is going to be a hell of a lot higher in MTTs.

[handsomestan]

Do you win every cash game session where stacks are relatively deep and, the blinds are fixed, and you can readily pick you spots? It's not very hard to understand that with a structure of escalating blinds and decreasing chip equity that your variance is going to be a hell of a lot higher in MTTs.

Yeah good point.

I guess what I was trying to ask is to what degree luck matters in winning a MTT.

It seems that its impossible to win a MTT without a certain degree of luck when it comes to the coinflips, bad beats etc.

[THaC]

What the difference is between the people that constantly win and the people that win every coinflip and suck out A8 v AK a few times and win once every 3 months is this:

The small pots they win when blinds get expensive. Instead of trying to avoid bad beats, you should be looking to pick up enough chips so that calling a decent-sized stack won't knock you out when you lose a coinflip.

[pokerroomace]

It happened again.

$55 speed tourney on party.

I'm above average stack, but blinds getting heavy. is the best hand I've seen in a few orbits so I push. I get called by a guy with a pretty silly looking who rivers me with a straight. He needed a nine on the river and he bloody well hit it.

I finish 17th out of 70. Top 9 got paid.

Wanker!!

so? you lost a 60-40. i've never seen such a bad beat story. and btw - does it really matter how it happened? you could have flopped trips and he could have won with quads. it really doesn't matter how it happened. you'll win 60% of the time and he'll win 40%. you're money was allin PF.

Also, how big is your stack? How big are the blinds? How big are the other stacks at the table? You haven't described the situation at all. Table images, odds he's getting to call, etc.

You'll avoid bad beats hurting you if you build up a stack before the bad beat happens. you always need luck to win an MTT, but if you play well in the long run then you will show a profit.
if you hadn't been playing hands for a few orbits - it seems to me that you weren't playing very well and your stack was being blinded away. when it gets towards the end of an mtt you need to start playing aggressively. steal the blinds. don't be scared.

also, if you flop trips and go allin preflop against a player drawing to a gut shot and lose - there is nothing you can do about the situation and you should be happy with how you played the hand. play that hand that way 100 times and you will show a profit

[KingLizard]

Everything needs to fall into place to win a large field MTT. Your good hands have to hold. You have to get lucky. You need to get cards at the right time. And you need to play well.

That's why these damn things are so high variance ... you're right, one bad hand can kick you out of the entire thing all at once, no matter how well you play.

It's kinda weird to feel like I need to be lucky to avoid being bad beaten for just one tourney ... but it's how I feel right now ... Don't worry, you're sure as hell not the only one frustrated right now.

Please Lee, stop doomswitching me.

Glad I stumbled across this post. I have been rivered in 15 of the last 16 MTTs. Just crazy stuff of course ... in EVERY case I had the best hand when the money went in. Just got beat and it sucks. So it is nice to know I am not alone in these situations. Guess you just have to keep plugging along and get your money in when you're ahead. Then hope for the best.

[thnwkd]

What the difference is between the people that constantly win and the people that win every coinflip and suck out A8 v AK a few times and win once every 3 months is this:

The small pots they win when blinds get expensive. Instead of trying to avoid bad beats, you should be looking to pick up enough chips so that calling a decent-sized stack won't knock you out when you lose a coinflip.

QFT