very weird hand between a couple 2/4 stars regulars

[Lukie]

I'm not at this table. A friend of mine showed it to me.

2/4 Stars NL 6max, Straate has $925, jessicafk covers.

Straate is VERY aggro and probably one of the best players in the game. He has been pushing jessica around a fair bit and has a wide range both preflop and when raising the flop.

I'm not quite as familiar with jessica, but she's fairly tight and certainly not as aggro. She might be trying a rebluff on the flop, who knows. Anyway, onto the hand...

Straate opens to $16 UTG with , 4 folds to jessica who calls in the BB.

Flop:

Jessica leads 24 (about 3/4 pot), straate pops it up to $89, and jessica 3-bets to $225. Straate calls.

Turn:

Pot is $480ish, checks through.

River:

Jessica open pushes. My fuzzy math tells me it's approximately $700 to straate. His action, and more importantly, your reasoning? Keep in mind that jessica has a significantly tighter range preflop and that straate holds the Ac.

[nutsinho]

This hand makes my head hurt.

There is a ton of nth level thinking going on here bc of straates tendencies of flop aggression and making hero calls.

I think one of two things happened:
1: Jess has a decent made hand <AA and figured the 3bet would take it down on the flop. She then turns her hand into a bluff because straate's hand is somewhat transparent and he should not be able to call such a massive bet.
2:Jess has a set and is pretty sure straate does not have a flush, and wants him to make the hero call.

Basically I think Jessica pwns straate in the long run in this spot regardless of whether he folds or calls.

[Miffed22001]

She has a set or nothing (sometimes KK/QQ perhaps trying to slowplay considering how straate plays)

I dont think she ever has a flush here as straate has the Ac and that means she didnt call with an AKc/AQc type of hand.

I know shes tight but does she ever play sc's? because i just dont believe she has a flush here from what i know of her.

[Genitruc]

something tells me Jessica is "value-bluffing" with a PP lower than AA

strangest part of hand for me is Straate's flat call of the flop 3-bet and then Jessica's turn check

I either one of them has a set, this is where I lose them.

If Strate has a set, does he really think Jessica's getting away from her hand after the flop 3-bet? Seems like a push is getting called by her after getting 30% of effective stacks involved.

If Jess is raising a big draw i.e. KQc will she really check this turn? If the point is to get the stacks in play then this check really sucks. Even 1/2 pot would set up a river shove.

So like I said be4, this seems like Jess is on a smaller pp than Straate. As crazy as this sounds, a push might fold out a cpl stronger hands (AA, 222) while looking suspicious enough to get a call from QQ or JJ.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

If either one of them has a set, this is where I lose them.

If Strate has a set, does he really think Jessica's getting away from her hand after the flop 3-bet?

Straate has AA.

[arkana]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...gonew=1#UNREAD

[gabe]

no one here can analyze this, theres too much metagame stuff thats not included

[jyms]

straate,

The flop was perfect for me. I flopped the top set. After your raise on the flop I was pretty sure you had QQ. But I had top set, so I had to re-raise you back. The turn card was a scare card for the both of us. But your check told me you had QQ or another big pair. I figured when I 3-bet you on the flop, you must have put me on a set, so it makes no sense for you to check a flush when I have a set. I had been largely staying out of your way. You and I didn't mix it up too much. So I don't see why you didn't reason me on a set. My push on the river was a bit of a gamble, but I was pretty sure that you had a big PP and not a flush and that you would pay me off. You took your time folding that one. Really long time. My QQ read was shifting to a small flush and you had me sweating for a bit. As it turns out, it was a good play on both our parts.

This was a key hand for me at that table. Things started going my way after this hand.

Edited by jessicafk (11/16/06 11:23 AM)

Doesn't sound to metagame to me, But I suck.

[gabe]

i meant all the metagame stuff that happened prior to this hand.

if jessica was awesome she would checkraise the river

[Miffed22001]

no one here can analyze this, theres too much metagame stuff thats not included

the only non-standard bit seems to be that she read straate's hand and tried to nth level him, but she plays pretty straight forward anyway and he prob shouldnt call this unless hes really really been kicking her around the table.

[gabe]

no one here can analyze this, theres too much metagame stuff thats not included

the only non-standard bit seems to be that she read straate's hand and tried to nth level him, but she plays pretty straight forward anyway and he prob shouldnt call this unless hes really really been kicking her around the table.

she yea tried to nth level him and totally fucked it up

[Fnord]

I dislike her turn check.

Straate's bluff frequency figures to be low here and I think he has to call with pretty wide range of worse hands. He's also capable of going 3rd level and seeing a turn bet as weak and perhaps would have an even bigger bluff range in that case. Finally, if it's checked through it's going to set her up to do something stupid like push the river.

I put him on a set/over-pair and conceade that I'm going to have to suck-out vs a flush. Then keep taking him to value-town.

[Genitruc]

If either one of them has a set, this is where I lose them.

If Strate has a set, does he really think Jessica's getting away from her hand after the flop 3-bet?

Straate has AA.

No kidding. I was mentioning these possibilities trying to figure out what they both put each other on, what they might be thinking during the hand etc...