What do you do on the flop?

[chardrian]

PokerStars Game #7342828855: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/12/07 - 18:39:42 (ET)
Table 'Leonid' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: politician2u ($233.95 in chips)
Seat 2: jacks123 ($194.30 in chips)
Seat 3: kr4azybass10 ($27.40 in chips)
Seat 4: nukem66 ($110.70 in chips)
Seat 5: chardrian ($254.55 in chips)
Seat 6: shaneomac34 ($200 in chips)
chardrian: posts small blind $1
shaneomac34: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Td Tc]
politician2u: folds
jacks123: folds
kr4azybass10: calls $2
nukem66: raises $6 to $8
chardrian: raises $22 to $30
shaneomac34: folds
kr4azybass10: folds
nukem66: calls $22
*** FLOP *** [Ks 8s 2h]
chardrian??

[Fnord]

This is an entirely predictable/standard spot, figure this out BEFORE you re-raise someone out of position. Resign yourself to the fact that the way you've played this it's not going to showdown.

That being said, Bet.

[jo]

That being said, Bet.

...or check-raise. Or check-call.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I always bet here, that's a good flop.

[Alexos]

I always bet here, that's a good flop.

[johnny_fish]

Checking is fine sometimes if you want to showdown and Villain is predictable/passive/bad.

[chardrian]

This is an entirely predictable/standard spot, figure this out BEFORE you re-raise someone out of position. Resign yourself to the fact that the way you've played this it's not going to showdown.

That being said, Bet.

I am having a much harder time than I would have thought adjusting to this game. I didn't see how it could be that different from MTTs. But just the small things like raising 4x instead of 3x, or reraising 4x someone's raise rather than 3x befuddles me a bit.

As for predictable/standard - yeah I figured as much - but I have like a 100 game sample size so I don't know what is standard/predictable and that's why i am asking.

Anyhoo - I bet like $40 (which is half my opp's stack at this point) and he coldcalls the flop. Am I now in check/call anything mode or just go ahead and put him all-in on the turn?

[Warpe]

Chard, I don't want to be the first to say this...but...please move down in stakes. You are nowhere near ready for 200nl. You can make 4 times as many mistakes at 50nl for the same price.

[Fnord]

A drop to $100 NL would do the trick. He needs to learn how to beat-up predictable players to get where he wants to go.

I came off as kind of a dick, but with deeper money in NLHE you need to think one play ahead because you're often not pot-struck after playing out your initial aggression.

[elipsesjeff]

A drop to $100 NL would do the trick. He needs to learn how to beat-up predictable players to get where he wants to go.

I came off as kind of a dick, but with deeper money in NLHE you need to think one play ahead because you're often not pot-struck after playing out your initial aggression.

I agree.

He's got you bwned. I check the turn and pray for a free showdown. After calling a reraise preflop and a hefty cbet on the flop, what hand do you put him on seriously?

[DaNutsInYoEye]

As long as we're telling you how much you suck...


POKERSTARS GAME #7300501564: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/12/04 - 17:50:03 (ET)
Table 'Gaspra III' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FDEEB66 ($109.20 in chips)
Seat 2: Burfer ($245.85 in chips)
Seat 3: gemini_2007 ($112.85 in chips)
Seat 4: jtmorgan ($197 in chips)
Seat 5: chardrian ($211.20 in chips)
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye ($969.75 in chips)
gemini_2007: posts small blind $1
jtmorgan: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [2c Jh]
chardrian: raises $6 to $8
NutsInYoEye: folds
FDEEB66: folds
Burfer: folds
gemini_2007: calls $7
jtmorgan: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [6s 4h Tc]
gemini_2007: bets $2
jtmorgan: calls $2
chardrian: raises $12 to $14
gemini_2007: folds
jtmorgan: calls $12
*** TURN *** [6s 4h Tc] [Qs]
jtmorgan: checks
chardrian: bets $19
jtmorgan: raises $30 to $49
chardrian: calls $30
*** RIVER *** [6s 4h Tc Qs] [Ah]
jtmorgan: bets $77
chardrian: raises $63.20 to $140.20 and is all-in
jtmorgan: calls $49 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chardrian: shows [Ts Th] (three of a kind, Tens)
jtmorgan: mucks hand
chardrian collected $401 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $404 | Rake $3
Board [6s 4h Tc Qs Ah]
Seat 1: FDEEB66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Burfer (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: gemini_2007 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: jtmorgan (big blind) mucked [4c 4d]
Seat 5: chardrian showed [Ts Th] and won ($401) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye folded before Flop (didn't bet)


You should be raising the flop donk bet more. I don't know why but I commonly see people not raising as much as they should be after there is a small bet in front of them. Your raise is only to 1/2 pot and probably less than you've would've bet if checked to... Then your turn bet is only like 37% of the pot. You need to be betting more. You're missing value and betting more actually makes it easier to get away from situations like this. Perhaps you felt it coming though . I would post some others but you hit-and-ran after playing like 20 hands so I didn't see any others go to showdown.

[Fnord]

I hate his turn play more. Need to set-up a sequence of events that gets all of the money into the pot without having to raise the river.

[Fnord]

After calling a reraise preflop and a hefty cbet on the flop, what hand do you put him on seriously?

Probably something that beats Tens, but people play so bad...

[chardrian]

As long as we're telling you how much you suck...


POKERSTARS GAME #7300501564: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/12/04 - 17:50:03 (ET)
Table 'Gaspra III' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FDEEB66 ($109.20 in chips)
Seat 2: Burfer ($245.85 in chips)
Seat 3: gemini_2007 ($112.85 in chips)
Seat 4: jtmorgan ($197 in chips)
Seat 5: chardrian ($211.20 in chips)
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye ($969.75 in chips)
gemini_2007: posts small blind $1
jtmorgan: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [2c Jh]
chardrian: raises $6 to $8
NutsInYoEye: folds
FDEEB66: folds
Burfer: folds
gemini_2007: calls $7
jtmorgan: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [6s 4h Tc]
gemini_2007: bets $2
jtmorgan: calls $2
chardrian: raises $12 to $14
gemini_2007: folds
jtmorgan: calls $12
*** TURN *** [6s 4h Tc] [Qs]
jtmorgan: checks
chardrian: bets $19
jtmorgan: raises $30 to $49
chardrian: calls $30
*** RIVER *** [6s 4h Tc Qs] [Ah]
jtmorgan: bets $77
chardrian: raises $63.20 to $140.20 and is all-in
jtmorgan: calls $49 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chardrian: shows [Ts Th] (three of a kind, Tens)
jtmorgan: mucks hand
chardrian collected $401 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $404 | Rake $3
Board [6s 4h Tc Qs Ah]
Seat 1: FDEEB66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Burfer (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: gemini_2007 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: jtmorgan (big blind) mucked [4c 4d]
Seat 5: chardrian showed [Ts Th] and won ($401) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye folded before Flop (didn't bet)


You should be raising the flop donk bet more. I don't know why but I commonly see people not raising as much as they should be after there is a small bet in front of them. Your raise is only to 1/2 pot and probably less than you've would've bet if checked to... Then your turn bet is only like 37% of the pot. You need to be betting more. You're missing value and betting more actually makes it easier to get away from situations like this. Perhaps you felt it coming though . I would post some others but you hit-and-ran after playing like 20 hands so I didn't see any others go to showdown.

Please keep telling me how much I suck. Once I realized it was u to my left I bolted from that table. I am still very much stuck in the mentality of mtts where u really need to maximize your big hands and take bad beats if they come cuz it is moe important to double up than it is to take small pots. That board was so drawless that I really really didn't want him to find a reason to fold.

As for my original post, I bet the flop, put him all-in on the turn and he had like 78. With the massive reraises that are done preflop, I don't see how u can really control the pot in a lot of situations.

[Warpe]

I am still very much stuck in the mentality of mtts where u really need to maximize your big hands and take bad beats if they come cuz it is moe important to double up than it is to take small pots.

You need to change this pronto.

With the massive reraises that are done preflop, I don't see how u can really control the pot in a lot of situations.

I admire your willingness to be aggressive early in a hand but from what I've seen so far you are putting yourself into some very tricky situations because of it and are having a hard time getting away from hands when you are obviously beat, so your hand reading skills need a lot of work. You're treating your stack like tourney chips, which they are not. Walk before you can run, chard. Tone down the aggressiveness somewhat preflop for now - have a tighter 3-betting range OOP, and see some flops more cheaply. You have absolutely no edge whatsoever over most 200nl players when they have position on you and are going to get taken to the cleaners if you keep going the way you are.

There is a good side to this though...your natural aggressiveness is going to make you extremely tough to play against once you have a clue.