Help with JJ hand early in 1 table SNG.

[Hornstar]

Hi all,

This is early on in a 1 table SNG on Stars. I have no reads on any one yet.

How is my play? Any criticism or advice is greatly received.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1440)
MP1 =#A500AF(Villain)/ (t1580)
MP2 (t1500)
Hero (t1490)
CO (t1550)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1510)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, J.
2 folds, MP1 =#A500AF(Villain)/ raises to t80, 1 fold, Hero calls t80, 3 folds, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t250) 6, 2, A (3 players)
BB checks, Villain bets t120, Hero raises to t300, BB folds, Villain calls t180.

Turn: (t850) 7 (2 players)
Villain bets t80, Hero calls t80.

River: (t1010) Q (2 players)
Villain bets t160, Hero calls t160.

Final Pot: t1330

Results in white below:
Villain has Qh Ad (two pair, aces and queens).
Hero has Jc Jh (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Villain wins t1330.

[gingerwizard]

Two ways to play this.

1. Reraise preflop. You'll have defined a big hand and you can see how much he likes his. I don't like this at all cos its too early.

2. Call and play carefully on the flop.

2. is fine but you have to know how to play this carefully. Clearly if you hit a set then you are trying to get all the money in. If the flop comes safe, e.g. all under cards then again im betting hard.

But on a flop with over cards im very careful and im trying to keep the pot small. A high flop is a disaster for you given the action before you and i probably fold to any large bet. There is now almost nothing you beat that would raise 4xBB preflop (apart from a bluff or KQ.) QQ, KK AQ, AK are all ahead, as are all of the raggy aces that low buyin donks enjoy playing.

[WildBobAA]

The flop raise is bad.

[taipan168]

This early and with two opps seeing the flop I would just give up when the A comes on the flop and Villain bets.

[drmcboy]

re raising pre flop is much better than raising the flop.

[FlyingSaucy]

I fold on that flop with that action in front of me, no doubt.

I think preflop is fine.

If you're going to raise the flop bet, it needs to be 500 or so.

The tiny turn bet + call seems pretty ridiculous given the flop, unless you are hoping purely to hit your flush on the river. He's obviously concerned about your flop raise, so if you are going to get fancy, your best chance of winning this hand now is to try to bet him out of it. Of course, you can never make someone fold.

The river is a fold, even with those pot odds. Think about it - what kinds of hands keep firing on every street?

[drmcboy]

I think preflop is fine.

If you're going to raise the flop bet, it needs to be 500 or so.

why would you smooth call pre flop and then raise this flop?

[FlyingSaucy]

I think preflop is fine.

If you're going to raise the flop bet, it needs to be 500 or so.

why would you smooth call pre flop and then raise this flop?

Villian is cbetting QQ-KK

[drmcboy]

OK

[drmcboy]

I have a bit more time now.

Pot is 250+villians 120 = 370

you want us to fire 500

If villian has Ax, we lose 500. I think we can agree we're never folding Ax for one bet and we're never firing again.

If villan has non Ax, we gain 370 IF he folds every time. Many people are not up and fold KK for one raise. Also, he may have a FD or a set. He needs to have the air a lot more than 50 % of the time for raising the flop to make any sense. Given he just led into two callers I don't see how we get there.

[FlyingSaucy]

.... The key word i wrote being "if"
I wrote on the first line of my response: I fold on that flop with that action in front of me, no doubt.

My only point was that IF you are going to raise it, you might as well make it a raise that will give you information. That 300 flop raise is completely useless.

[drmcboy]

OK. I guess to me that's like telling someone the best way to cut off a perfectly healthy arm.

[Da GOAT]

as Drmc mentioned (plus i do it now) is RR PF. TLR is also known for RR JJ PF.

basically if we RR PF and get RR again then we fold having gained more info on opp. if we RR and opp calls than we are happy opp probably doesnt have QQ+ so its either over cards or loweer PP.

Opp bet 80 so i bet 200-225. its a bit small but i wana keep the pot small plus if we are RR pF then we havent wasted chips.

also it gives us control instead of folding to opp c/b on flop we get to make a c/b.

[taipan168]

Maybe I'm weak/tight, but this early in the SNG I am not re-raising JJ preflop. I'm happy to call the raise and with two opps on the flop, fold to Villain's bet. If the flop had come all unders I would have stuck in a solid raise, but why leak away chips re-raising preflop with a difficult hand when there's a lot more poker to be played?

[Hornstar]

Thanks all for your comments.

Afterwards I realised that I could not really have achieved anything with the flop raise and if I wanted to be aggressive with JJ I should have RR PF. Sometimes its just good to hear it from someone else.

Anyway thanks again for all your help. I will certainly take it on board.

Martyn

[drmcboy]

weirdly, if pot was unopened I am OK with a limp, but as goat says we can get info on the EP raise that IMO saves us chips.

It may seem like bleeding chips but you're going to bleed off a lot more to QQ-AA on a 762 board. The only real negative to the re raise pre flop is that we miss chance to stack those same hands on J high board. OTOH, back to 762 board, if we RR pre flop we almost always stack 88-TT when they smooth call pre.

EDIT just to say you have to love JJ!

[b-rabbit]

Two ways to play this.
2. Call and play carefully on the flop.

2. is fine but you have to know how to play this carefully. Clearly if you hit a set then you are trying to get all the money in. If the flop comes safe, e.g. all under cards then again im betting hard.

But on a flop with over cards im very careful and im trying to keep the pot small. A high flop is a disaster for you given the action before you and i probably fold to any large bet. There is now almost nothing you beat that would raise 4xBB preflop (apart from a bluff or KQ.) QQ, KK AQ, AK are all ahead, as are all of the raggy aces that low buyin donks enjoy playing.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1380550131: $11 + $1 Sit & Go (Turbo) (9764729), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:46:14 ET - 2006/12/09
Seat 1: vticehokie (3,015)
Seat 2: ah-haa (3,250)
Seat 3: rpomavill (1,415)
Seat 4: senseoffense (1,400)
Seat 7: br614 (1,580)
Seat 8: Killer Kim (1,720)
Seat 9: rdchp (1,120)
rdchp posts the small blind of 25
vticehokie posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to br614 [Jh Jd]
ah-haa has 15 seconds left to act
ah-haa raises to 150
rpomavill raises to 400
senseoffense folds
br614 calls 400
Killer Kim folds
rdchp folds
vticehokie folds
ah-haa folds
*** FLOP *** [7s 3c Ac]
rpomavill bets 200
br614 calls 200
*** TURN *** [7s 3c Ac] [Jc]
rpomavill checks
br614 bets 500
rpomavill folds
Uncalled bet of 500 returned to br614
br614 mucks
br614 wins the pot (1,425)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,425 | Rake 0
Board: [7s 3c Ac Jc]
Seat 1: vticehokie (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: ah-haa folded before the Flop
Seat 3: rpomavill folded on the Turn
Seat 4: senseoffense didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: br614 collected (1,425), mucked
Seat 8: Killer Kim (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: rdchp (small blind) folded before the Flop

[Da GOAT]

brabbit, on your hand there is no way im taking that PF line. ugh im not putting 400 in without inititive

[b-rabbit]

brabbit, on your hand there is no way im taking that PF line. ugh im not putting 400 in without inititive

yea
its funny
get it?