Pointless River Bet?

[euphoricism]

Another discussion hand. I cant remember much about this guy, it was a while ago. IIRC he was pretty taggy.

What are your thoughts on the river bet?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($27.50)
Button ($41.75)
SB ($28.50)
Hero ($69)
UTG ($28)
MP ($31.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, T.
UTG raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.25) 3, 9, J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.25) T (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50.

River: ($8.25) J (2 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $12.25

[Genitruc]

this is a good bet

ppl don t make these thin value bets enough

also, you can get him off a 10 sometimes

[euphoricism]

In order for a bet to be a valubet, it needs to be called a reasonable percentage of the time AND be the best hand at showdown.

Does that occur here?

[IowaSkinsFan]

this is a good bet

ppl don t make these thin value bets enough

also, you can get him off a 10 sometimes

You're kinda making a contrasting arguement, you're saying he'll fold a better ten, but will call with a worse hand? I think this value bet sucks and sometimes your just going to run into a donk who played KK/QQ retardly or a J retardly.

[Halv]

Feels more like a block bet to me. The only thing that is ahead and folds is a better ten, which is not often. But we prevent him from making a bet we can't call with a hand that we beat.

I don't think we get looked up often enough by a 9 or small pp that thinks we're bluffing our hearts to call it a value bet.

I don't know if I like it.

[Genitruc]

It can accomplish lots of things

Depending on the dynamic at the table, villain can fold a hand as strong as A10 or call with a hand as weak as 88 (especially after making that lame turn bet).

I find that the funny thing with river blocking bets OOP is that it freezes/confuses so many ppl. Since most ppl are incapable of bluff-raising it's one of the strongest tools you can have at low-mid stakes

I agree my 1st post was contradictory, but I seriously think these "contradictory" things happen when ppl either put you squarely on a bluff (hence calling w 88) or squarely value-betting (top trips whee). Thin value bets just don't happen enough OOP at the lowstakes so ppl don't know how to deal with them.

[zenbitz]

The river bet in isolation isn't bad (block bet with meh hand on scary board) - the question for me is, what is he doing with a 1/3rd pot turn bet? Does it make him more or less likely to have AT/88? Is raising the turn better?

[euphoricism]

The river bet in isolation isn't bad (block bet with meh hand on scary board) - the question for me is, what is he doing with a 1/3rd pot turn bet? Does it make him more or less likely to have AT/88? Is raising the turn better?

Probably. That weak turn bet is pretty common around 50NL and its almost always weak. Raising is certainly an option, but he folds everything we beat and probably calls anything that beats us so without improving on the river, which were only 4.5:1ish to do and we're putting in halfish the money, I think its a -EV raise.

[Genitruc]

The river bet in isolation isn't bad (block bet with meh hand on scary board) - the question for me is, what is he doing with a 1/3rd pot turn bet? Does it make him more or less likely to have AT/88? Is raising the turn better?

Probably. That weak turn bet is pretty common around 50NL and its almost always weak. Raising is certainly an option, but he folds everything we beat and probably calls anything that beats us so without improving on the river, which were only 4.5:1ish to do and we're putting in halfish the money, I think its a -EV raise.

!!! agree 100%

[euphoricism]

FWIW it was his pathetic turn bet that led me to believe I could donk the river and take it down. I'm still not convinced its a good bet, as I'm really wondering if I only get called when beat, barring maybe pushing exactly AT off. But it functions well as a blocking bet.

[mcatdog]

Nah just check, you almost always have the best hand but he's probably going to make another stupid small bet that you want to call.

[euphoricism]

Thats a very good point too.