Intuition?

[rm082e]

This has been bugging me for a whole day now, so I decided to post about it and see what others had to say. Please comment if you have any opinion or similar experiences at all, as I would like some feedback.

So occasionally my intuition tells me I should do something in a poker game, and some of the time I don't listen because it goes against the logical way the hand should be played. Of course my intuition isn't always correct, but I always feel like I've failed when I don't listen and then my intuition is proven right. Yesterday was a particularly frustrating session for me because I didn't listen to my intuition. Here's what happened:

I sit down in two 6xMaxx NL games and start browsing the web. Nothing much happened in my games; a small stolen pot here and there, an AK that bricked the flop, nothing out of the norm. Then while I was reading my email, one of the rooms popped up showing I had 6/3 os in the small blind. I fold the hand without thinking about it. As soon as I hit the fold button, the other game popped up showing I had 6/3 os in the small blind.

Right away, a voice in my belly said I should see a flop because I was going to hit a hand... I took a second and looked at the situation: 2 limpres, the button raised 4xBB. So if I had called, I would be OOP, with the BB and limpers still to act behind, and I was holding a crappy hand. Logically, I decided to fold. The BB and limpers called. The flop was 4-5-7 rainbow. It gets checked to the button who bets 3/4 pot. The BB calls and the limpers fold. The turn is an ace. The BB and button now get in a raising war and get all in. The river is a meaningless jack. The cards are flipped and the BB had a set of sevens. The button had a set of aces. If I had listened to my belly, I would have flopped the straight and at least stacked the button, maybe the BB as well.

So I brushed it off as random weirdness (like I always do when this happens...) and went back to set camping. Half an hour later, on a different table, I pick up 88 on the button. It's folded to me and I just feel that I'm going to win a pot with this hand. I raise, the SB instantly calls, and then the BB pushes all in for like 120 x BB. I figure he has aces, I get nervous, let the time run almost out, and fold. The small blind calls. The flop comes A-8-x. Don't remember the turn or river, but they both showed AK for a split pot. At this point the voice in my head was yelling at me calling me an idiot so I sat out. I went and did house work for like two hours, debating back and forth over what I should have done. After doing all the dishes, cleaning my bathroom from top to bottom, and sweeping all the floors in the house, I didn't come to any conclusion.

These moments of intuition don't happen very often (certainly not twice in one day), and of course that little voice isn't right %100 of the time. But, in hindsight, it seems like I'd be allot better off listening to it when it pops up.

Anyone else have similar experiences? If so, do you always listen to that voice, even when it goes against logical strategy for the hand?

[biondino]

The honest and dull answer is that no, there is no such thing as a voice in these circumstances. If you have one, then seriously, you can make millions with your unique gift (I am not being sarcastic but I know it must seem I am!)

What DOES exist is a form of intuition based on having played many thousands of hands, and having a subconscious understanding of the situation, from odds to hand-reading etc. So there will be times when you make moves which might seem -EV on the surface, but where your mind has picked up on subtle nuances in betting patterns.

This intuition should be taken very seriously, but equally you have to remember that it is fragile, and can very easily be overcome by emotions such as anger, frustration, entitlement - i.e. tilt in all its forms. It's very easy to kid yourself that you're calling a push because intuitively you think you're ahead when actually, you are steaming from a past perceived injustice and are no longer playing rationally.

[swiggidy]

start keeping track of the times you "feel like calling" and don't and you wouldn't win (thus didn't loose anything). Especially times where the flop is A63 and you loose anyway because your hand is counterfeited.

[newfiehair]

I am still tryin to learn the game in a more serious manner BUT I have had the "intution" calls AND folds that have worked in my favor. I try to then just let that "gut" feeling go and forget about it so I dont try to make it "the way to play" poker. With that being said ,I do believe that sometimes you do have to listen to your gut. But as I am learning I am trying to push that feeling WAAAY down outta the thought process of the game.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Sometimes "intuition" may be just subconscious oker instincts. I'd post hands where u felt like ur intuiton was right and id like to see if in fact it was the best poker move.

[rm082e]

Sometimes "intuition" may be just subconscious oker instincts. I'd post hands where u felt like ur intuiton was right and id like to see if in fact it was the best poker move.

It happened again a few days ago. I felt I would make a good hand here, but couldn't convince myself to raise with J7, so I made a big donkey move:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($9.60)
Button ($14.50)
SB ($9.35)
BB ($3.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, 7.
Hero calls $0.10, Button raises to $0.4, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30, Hero folds.

Flop: ($0.95) 8, T, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Button bets $0.3, BB calls $0.30.

Turn: ($1.55) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks.

River: ($1.55) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $1.55

Results:
BB has 8s Ah (one pair, eights).
Button has Kh Ac (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins $1.55.

I feel like an f-tard for starting this thread now, since I know how I must sound. To anyone reading this, I could just be claiming to have some foresite after the fact for whatever lame reason. I would more than understand if I'm viewed as a retard. Anyway, I'll try and keep a log of any more hands like this in the next few months. Thanks for the replies everyone.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

It's not intuition to guess the flop, turn or river cards. If you can do that go play on Party Poker and just fold every hand but place max bets on "red" or "black." It's simply guessing.

The "feelings" you're getting are quickly ignored when a flop misses your hand. When you hit though the feeling is reinforced and it stands out in your mind. It's nothing more than simple psychology.

[Knytestorme]

Yep, I think it's something like 25:1 (or maybe 115:1, don't have chart handy atm) for that flop to hit yet you'd be getting odds of 3:1 to call the pfr.

The times you hit that flop compared to the times you miss will never be able to make up for the cost of the call each time.

Say you play your J7s and the flop comes AK6 rainbow, or AJ3 of spades? What's your play there....fold is the correct answer yes.

As others have said (and I get caught up in this as well from time to time) your brain is merely reinforcing the times when you would have hit the flop and ignoring every other time you'd have missed. Bottom line is to just keep making good decisions and you will win...calling a pfr with J7s UTG is not making a good decision.

[rm082e]

After looking at histories in PT for the last hour, you guys are right. It's got to be my brain seeing patterns where there aren't any. That last hand just proves I'm crapping out.

Thanks for helping me reason this out.

[swiggidy]

I know you've accepted it already...

How much would you have won in the posted hand had you called pre? I'm guessing $1.55. That's easily not worth it.