See a flop?

[TwoKicker]

I am having a bad day, here is another hand bothering me:

6st $11 Sng Blind at 20/40

6 people left

Starting stack 1000

Hero is BB with 600
Villan is UTG with 700

Hero is dealt AsKs
Villan Raises to 160, all folds, Hero ??

I opted to go all in, I though I would pick up the pot right there or flip against the other small stack.

My other option was to call and see the flop, where I would fold with no piece of it.

What would you have done?

[fdnypoker]

Personally after his raise I like to call and see a flop. His raise is 4x BB. No idea how he plays. Does this put him on A-x, maybe a pocket pair?. Not sure what to put him on. But the blinds are still very low.....you have an M over 15....not sure there's a reason to push all in here.

Only my 2 cents

[TwoKicker]

My M was 10

[taipan168]

Easy all in for me. I don't like calling off 20% of my stack and potentially having to fold the flop if there is no A or K. Plus our stack is too shallow to c-bet the flop if we miss. Also, as they say on TV, AK needs to see all five cards to get full value against 22-QQ if that is what opp has.

[fdnypoker]

sry twokicker....read the post wrong. Thought your starting stack was 1000. Now I see it was 600. At this level I would agree with taipan168.

Also....taipan168....good way to explain AK.....needing to see all 5 cards to get full value. Interesting way to think bout it. Thnx

[dsaxton]

The time for "seeing flops" is long gone here.

[Sprayed]

I don't think you can see a flop with a stack of 1000 when facing a 160 raise. Anytime you are faced with calling over 10% of your stack, you need to be thinking push or fold.

As for the hand, I would just push. TwoKicker, don't let the results make you think that you played it incorrectly.

[uscheese]

I agree...you might not get a better hand than this with the stack size you have to get all your chips in. I'd have to push here and hope he's got A-junk or a mid pp

[fdnypoker]

I'm not sure I agree. The blinds are only 20/40 here. If they were any higher I may push all in. A call keeps your chip count at about 450 or so.....

well maybe I do push.....

I'm on the fence

[Charles]

Depending on his past play I would say this is a push or see the flop situation... you know now that I think about it if your going to see a flop might as well push

[Sprayed]

I'm not sure I agree. The blinds are only 20/40 here. If they were any higher I may push all in. A call keeps your chip count at about 450 or so.....

well maybe I do push.....

I'm on the fence

You have 600 in chips. You smoooooth call 160 with AK of spades leaving you with 440. Putting you right at 10bbs. You see flop: 4h5h6h. What do you do?

The whole idea of the push/fold when faced with calling a raise that is over 10% of your stack, is that you are pretty much pot committed anyways. So you might as well get your chips in. Especially with AK. All 5 cards remember?

[dsmrolla06]

Theres absolutely no way you can smooth call this. I agree with everything sprayed has said here. If you ask soupie or rizen, theyll tell you when calling costs you 10% of your stack or more you should fold or push. And with AK i think its an easy decision which that should be.

[fdnypoker]

dang Sprayed....I didn't remember the 5 card full value thing!

Still learning the right time to push..... "when calling costs you 10% of your stack or more you should fold or push" Is this a standard play and will it show a long term positive outcome?

[taipan168]

Also....taipan168....good way to explain AK.....needing to see all 5 cards to get full value. Interesting way to think bout it. Thnx

No worries! The way to think about it is that AK is about 32% to hit an A or K on the flop, but is generally 45/55 underdog against 22-QQ in an all-in preflop situation. Shoving preflop (when appropriate!) removes the often difficult decision whether or not to c-bet when you miss the flop (remember, 68% of the time) when that will be a lot of your remaining stack.

The whole idea of the push/fold when faced with calling a raise that is over 10% of your stack, is that you are pretty much pot committed anyways. So you might as well get your chips in. Especially with AK. All 5 cards remember?

I prefer to think about this in terms of the chips already in the pot relative to my stack. If the chips in the pot preflop are 15% or more of my stack then I just tend to go AI preflop if I'm going to play. See how that works relative to the 10x BB push/fold "rule"?

[Sprayed]

I prefer to think about this in terms of the chips already in the pot relative to my stack. If the chips in the pot preflop are 15% or more of my stack then I just tend to go AI preflop if I'm going to play. See how that works relative to the 10x BB push/fold "rule"?

Very nice. fdnypoker's head just exploded.

[fdnypoker]

Sprayed.....Did you hear it! Holy dear God......

These are easy enough numbers to figure out but it seems so mechanical. Is it wrong to take into account how close you are to the money, how people have been playing, etc etc. Or is it profitable long term, once your M is at say 9-10 to auto push a hand like AKs after someone puts in a raise that commits more than 10% or your chips or makes the pot 15% of what you have left?

I just got dizzy.....