Tonight's Tough Spots

[Genitruc]

Tough Spot #1 :

Villain is 50/11 but isn’t spewy postflop. Hint : he likes to limp suited cards This isn't a bad-beat post. I'm just trying to figure out if calling can be profitable here :


- MeezerMan sitting in seat 1 with $253.35
- tyson66 sitting in seat 2 with $173.15 [Dealer]
- sveinfre sitting in seat 4 with $181.58
- Genitruc sitting in seat 5 with $231.10
- jusless sitting in seat 6 with $172.60

sveinfre posted the small blind - $1.00
Genitruc posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to Genitruc:
jusless folded
MeezerMan folded
tyson66 folded
sveinfre called - $2.00
Genitruc checked

** Dealing the flop:
sveinfre checked
Genitruc bet - $4.00
sveinfre called - $4.00

** Dealing the turn: :10d:
sveinfre checked
Genitruc bet - $12.00
sveinfre raised - $24.00
Genitruc raised - $48.00
sveinfre went all-in - $152.58
Genitruc…


Tough Spot #2 :

Same villain a few hands later.


- tyson66 sitting in seat 2 with $120.96 [Dealer]
- sveinfre sitting in seat 4 with $385.16
- Genitruc sitting in seat 5 with $210.60

sveinfre posted the small blind - $1.00
Genitruc posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to Genitruc:
tyson66 folded
sveinfre called - $2.00
Genitruc bet - $8.00
sveinfre called - $8.00

** Dealing the flop:
sveinfre checked
Genitruc bet - $16.00
sveinfre called - $16.00

** Dealing the turn:
sveinfre checked
Genitruc checked

** Dealing the river:
sveinfre bet - $24.00
Genitruc calls or raises?


Tough spot #3 :

Villain is decent (runs at something like 21/15). Dunno why he’s shortstacking it here…

- jonne71 sitting in seat 1 with $240.19
- tyson66 sitting in seat 2 with $184.00 [Dealer]
- span86 sitting in seat 3 with $115.86
- Genitruc sitting in seat 4 with $330.55
- lanse sitting in seat 5 with $155.85
- Bones24 sitting in seat 6 with $142.38

span86 posted the small blind - $1.00
Genitruc posted the big blind - $2.00

** Dealing card to Genitruc:

lanse folded
Bones24 raised - $8.00
jonne71 folded
tyson66 folded
span86 folded
Genitruc raised - $26.00
Bones24 called - $26.00

** Dealing the flop:

Genitruc bet - $26.50
Bones24 raised - $76.15
Genitruc…

Fwiw I’m posting the above hand since I thought this was a clear fold but the person railing me felt like it was much closer than I was making it out to be…

Tough Spot #4 :

Villain is hyperaggro preflop (27/25). I 4-bet for value. I was fked up by his smooth-call, esp with stacks this shallow. I’m posting the results here since I’d like comments on my line. Something important to note is that I’m playing as tight as I can (something like 22/16) and there’s no reason for villain to see me as being out of line.

Also, in an earlier hand I 3-bet him with a PP and he instashoved. So he’s def not afraid of getting it AI preflop :

** Game ID 1297353517 starting - 2007-03-31 20:41:06
** Together [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Genitruc sitting in seat 2 with $410.38
- Challe50 sitting in seat 3 with $156.00
- TanaKa1000 sitting in seat 5 with $413.65 [Dealer]
- panzergus sitting in seat 6 with $288.20

panzergus posted the small blind - $1.00
Genitruc posted the big blind - $2.00

** Dealing card to Genitruc:

Challe50 folded
TanaKa1000 raised - $7.00
panzergus raised - $23.00
Genitruc raised - $80.00
TanaKa1000 folded
panzergus called - $80.00

** Dealing the flop:

panzergus checked
Genitruc checked

** Dealing the turn:

panzergus bet - $167.00
Genitruc folded

[givememyleg]

I think I would bet the turn in hand 2, why let a naked spade catch up?
I'm confused about hand 3 as to why you lead so weak and why it's a clear fold?

[Genitruc]

I just don't think in hand 3 that villain will be shipping it with a stone-cold bluff or Aj.

Only hand I beat is QQ.

Betting the turn in hand 2 would be fine. This villain checked a big hand earlier though on turn so I didn't want to get CR and have to 2nd guess myself (maybe bad).

[XTR1000]

#1 i might find a fold here. i don´t see many hands we beat here.

#2 bet turn. by checking behind you´re inviting villian to bluff the river. as played i don´t see much value in raising

#3 if stacks were deeper this might be a clear fold, given his shortness i´d call.

[JJDAMAN]

1. I dont see what would play like this other than a flush. Set/2pr or straight would pretty much always raise/reraise on the flop. With that being said I still almost never fold in this spot...

2. I usually play something like this.

3. If he's decent then folding's not bad. Your right, you dont really beat anything. I could see AK playing like this maybe? I still call.

4. Why check the flop? If its not to induce this bet I would probably bet the flop. I would probably call here too. Maybe im just a calling station..

[boost]

1, you flopped a flush, no way in hell we are ever folding 100bb deep.

2, xtr is right, by checking the turn we induce river bluffs, not sure why hes advising against this. When you induce bluffs, obv just call river.

3, you seriously folded KK in a 3bet pot as an overpair, why?

4, you 4bet it pf, youre 150bb deep, how do you get away from this flop? Dont really understand the check either... unless of course you are inducing, in which case you cant fold. This is the worst check/fold of the century I think.

[griffey24]

In your hand history, when it says Raised - $XX does that mean you're raising TO XX or BY XX?

1. I think if you're gonna 3-bet here, I would probably 3-bet stronger. At which point, you'll be committed to call a push anyhow. Otherwise, I might just flat call his c/r, and then call the river lead.

2. I think I just flat call this river. You're probably losing value from an ace, but gaining value from boats and flushes. It probably evens out.

3. How aggro is villain? Now many draws on this board so hard to say what you're beating. At th same time, you bet pretty weak on the flop (1/2 pot) so villain could put you on AK or missed overs. I would probably bet stronger here if I was going to bet, like $34-40ish. As played, it probably depends how aggro villain is.

4. Your line is definitely confusing me here. Why are you folding after you checked through the flop? He could have anything here. Also villain probably has a wide range for his re-raise PF, since it was against a button raiser. I think this is as good of a flop as you're gonna get, bet the flop, or definitely call the turn.

[Renton]

1, you flopped a flush, no way in hell we are ever folding 100bb deep.

its a limped pot.

But i agree, in this spot Im def not folding. But you can fold two card flushes in limped pots sometimes is all im saying.

[benny999]

that flush one is tough..def not a no brainer with the 2nd lowest flush in a limp pot for 100bb vs this action, unless villain plays same with 2pr/set.
i'm not sure if it's profitable, but doubt it if he's the camping type post flop. if he's more donkish than yea.

2- i would raise to about 64 on the river

3- yuck, small raise is scary. i still prob push it in hopes of QQ, AK.

4- "4bet for value" doesnt match up with how you played this imo. i mean, if he has such a loose 3bet range and tight 4bet calling range, why not 4bet a SC in place of AQo, and just call with AQ? i know metagame etc but otherwise whats the point?
i agree with previous posts on playing it post flop after 4 betting though.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I've personally noticed that at 1/2 people never fold to three bets ever, his range is wider than you think on hand 3, just push.

Please bet hand 2 on the turn.

Hand 1 is tough and it's so borderline i don't mind either folding or calling.

Hand 4... i play the same probably.

[boost]

you play 4th hand the same? Some reasoning please.

[Genitruc]

Looking back on this post I figure hands 1 and 3 are pretty useless posts that I just smacked into this thread since they seemed interesting in the heat of the moment.

Nothing exciting except coolers. Villain had the flopped str8 flush (6h7h) in hand 1 and JJJ on the J 10 x board. No point really in posting them since they're basically just coolers where I think I was very capable of folding and, based on my recollection of table dynamics, would've been correct to do. This is just a frequency thing. Approaching every situation with the attitude "folding X hand on Y board vs Z player is suboptimal, so I'll NEVER do it" isn't great imo.

No sense in asking for advice when you don't want it...

Hands 2 (AKs on AA10 board w flush completing on turn) and 4 (AQ on Qxx flop in 4-bet pot), however, I think are much more interesting.

In hand 2 I minraised the river and villain FLAT-CALLED W A9 (boat). After villain flat-calls the flop, with my read that he's loose-passive preflop (i.e. Hud #'s) but not spewy/terrible postflop, all that I can put him on is 10x, a flushdraw (hello big pot w the worst hand), the case ace or maybe something like QJ/KQ/KJ w a spade.

Usually someone raising 11% of hands will bring in for a raise in a blind war with something like KQ, KJ or even a mediocre A so I figured his most likely holding was 10x, prob a SC or suited gapper-type hand. Betting this turn would simply fold him out (doubt he'd chase 8 or 9-high FD). The other likely holding is the made flush, hence the check.

Then when he donks the river I make a risky play hoping to get value from 10x putting me on a bluff. Pretty bad play by me but WTF SMOOTH CALL I GUESS HE PUT ME ON QUAD ACES

Hand 4 is a sick sick sick spot imo. My read on villain is that he doesn't spew postflop. I really should have reread to make sure I had included this since I think it's crucial (I had just posted the above-mentioned read in a hand vs him in another thread hence the omission).

If I perceived villain to be at all spewy, then obv I'm never folding AQ on that board in a million years. The problem is figuring out what hands he flat-calls 1/3 of his stack with preflop vs my 4-betting range.

I mentioned I 4-bet for value. Benny makes a good point about calling the 3-bet if he can't call the 4-bet with worse (i.e. that it's better to make this 4 bet w SC's or a small pair).

The problem with smooth-calling here is that I'll be pricing in the original raiser and don't fancy playing AQo OOP vs 1 opponent and facing lots of aggression from another.

So I'm actually raising with my AQ hoping to take the pot down right there.

Even if the original raiser folded, I'd be facing a very aggressive opponent without a big hand. There were much bigger fish at all my tables and I didn't feel like tangling with this guy in a huge pot.

What does villain CALL 80$ with preflop OOP vs someone he respects? Do I really think he's doing this with a hand that he'll check-fold? No.

Flop is obviously all I could ask for but I just don't think there's any way my hand is good more than maybe 35% of the time. And that's a big maybe.

An o.k. line would've been to bet-fold flop I think. Maybe 1/2 pot.

Put yourself in villain's shoes. He knows that I may be squeezing here as a bluff since I see him 3-betting so light and obv neither of us respects a Btn raise. The only logical conclusion I can come to is that villain will shove hands he doesn't like playing a flop with OOP (think 99-JJ, MAYBE QQ and def AK).

Conversely, monsters will be much better served by going for CR AI on any flop, getting me to commit myself with AK or JJ/QQ/1010 and hopefully c-bet when I'm squeezing with something weak. He's not worried about me setting up when 1/3 of his stack is already going to be commited.

I figure there's also a SLIGHT possibility that villain pwned me with JJ since it would make sense not wanting to fold pre but figuring that I'd either be crushing/flipping with him if I called his preflop shove. So I figure JJ is the single hand I beat in his range of cold-calling hands OOP.

Lastly, don't want to make this sound like I'm 100% sure of myself since I wasn't when I posted it. It just so happens that the more I think about the situation, the more I like the line I took.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

you play 4th hand the same? Some reasoning please.

He 4-bet and got called. The opponent is betting into a 4-bettor on a Q high turn. You aren't beating anything, people don't call 4-bets light usually, especially when it's that big.

[XTR1000]

2, xtr is right, by checking the turn we induce river bluffs, not sure why hes advising against this

if a fourth spade falls, there´s no more value in looking him up. he´ll bet a spade and a boat and c/f anything else.

better get the money in here and don´t let him 3out you

[benny999]

good explanation genitruc. i agree it's not likely he pwned you by making a loosish call pre flop just to bluff you off AQ/JJ/AK etc like that, and more likely he had KK/AA.

and looking back i don't think calling would work better (was thinking u can raise his cbet or float..or get value from a weaker ace, but that's hard in a rr pot vs a good/tricky opp).

but two other options i like more...just folding pre flop, or 4betting smaller. the way I see it, you 4bet for "protection/initiative" instead of "value" so it's not like you need to bump it up to 80 when a smaller raise (probably) does the same thing.

[Genitruc]

good explanation genitruc. i agree it's not likely he pwned you by making a loosish call pre flop just to bluff you off AQ/JJ/AK etc like that, and more likely he had KK/AA.

and looking back i don't think calling would work better (was thinking u can raise his cbet or float..or get value from a weaker ace, but that's hard in a rr pot vs a good/tricky opp).

but two other options i like more...just folding pre flop, or 4betting smaller. the way I see it, you 4bet for "protection/initiative" instead of "value" so it's not like you need to bump it up to 80 when a smaller raise (probably) does the same thing.

yeah it's interesting ; everybody whose opinion I respect seems to cringe when they read the AQ 4-bet hand.

I wonder what I should've done to adjust to a very light 3-bettor sitting to my left? The other 2 players at the table were fishy and I wanted to play pots with them... Also when someone is running 27/25 I'm not 2 worried about having the best hand when that player 3-bets from the SB.

I just don't see flat-calling as a good option since I'll get into a big pot without a pair vs the only player at the table I'm worried about... And folding seems so sick-weak.