What is LAG?

[SmackinYaUp]

I always think of tags as like 20/17's or something and lags as like 35/20's and seems like people on a lot of the forums say the same.

I've cut back to 4 tables to work on my game and lag it up more and am surprised by my PT numbers. For example, I just got done with a thousand hand 4-tabling session and thought I was lagging it up. I look at my PT stats for today and here it is:




This is missing a few hands from the day, but this is most of them. I was raising preflop constantly and getting a lot of action including 3bets. But 24/19 is all I could manage?? geez

[sauce123]

i have qualitative evidence to suggest poker is rigged regardless of style

[Genitruc]

depends a lot on the table you're at obv...

If you're playing w 3 50/30 villains it's pretty hard for your PFR #'s to be high.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of range are you raising from CO and later when limped/folded to you?

[SmackinYaUp]

On the CO and button I limp a lot of hands if its been limped to me. I've been trying loosening up a lot in those situations instead of being raise/fold. Lately I've just been raising 88+, AQ+ and limping a lot of face cards, suited, and small PPs behind other limpers and trying to play better than them postflop. I used to raise weak limpers with a wider range of hands but they all call and I still have to hit something to take it down so I've been trying this way instead.

If its been folded to me in the CO, my raising range is pretty wide especially if the person to my left is tight. Its not as wide as on the button, but I raise most face cards, connectors, suited aces and kings and the random J9 type of hand sometimes.

[Genitruc]

On the CO and button I limp a lot of hands if its been limped to me. I've been trying loosening up a lot in those situations instead of being raise/fold. Lately I've just been raising 88+, AQ+ and limping a lot of face cards, suited, and small PPs behind other limpers and trying to play better than them postflop. I used to raise weak limpers with a wider range of hands but they all call and I still have to hit something to take it down so I've been trying this way instead.

If its been folded to me in the CO, my raising range is pretty wide especially if the person to my left is tight. Its not as wide as on the button, but I raise most face cards, connectors, suited aces and kings and the random J9 type of hand sometimes.

Sounds good.

Based on this you'll be at 35/24 in no time!

[IowaSkinsFan]

Wait.... why r u limping with limpers? Shouldn't we be raising with limpers especially unless there short stacked?

[Genitruc]

Wait.... why r u limping with limpers? Shouldn't we be raising with limpers especially unless there short stacked?

no cuz we have crap and they have crap and we're gonna get paid when our crap gets beautiful + we have position.

Standard tagg play dictates that you raise preflop and isolate but in my experience way too often you try to punish with like J9o, the 1st limper calls then everyone does.

All of a sudden you're in a 30bb pot with a shitty hand.

Conversely, when you just limp behind, you'll be in position to manipulate pot-size and - assuming your image is pretty aggressive - ppl will pay you off very light when you hit a big hand. I'd often just limp behind in position with KQ and A10 (sometimes even AJ) hands where my kicker was favoured to be best in a limped pot when I hit a top-pair type hand...

edit : I remember an El Diablo thread from a long time ago where he discussed limping AQo on the button after 4 ppl had already limped. At a mediocre-passive table of callign stations I think this is pretty optimal.

I had enormous success doing this on P arty vs the fish. Much more success than I used to when i taggishly raised limpers aggressively.

[Renton]

i consider 25+/20+ to be lag preflop stats

[sauce123]

yea I mean I think technically like 25/20 plus is lag but at the same time I think all of these terms r kinda outdated as there is such a gigantic difference between a 12/10 tag and a 24/20 tag with everything in between.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Wait.... why r u limping with limpers? Shouldn't we be raising with limpers especially unless there short stacked?

no cuz we have crap and they have crap and we're gonna get paid when our crap gets beautiful + we have position.

O rly?
This is really news to me, everyone agree with Genitruc? Maybe I should start doing this. Fnord always said limpers + Pfr with crap = $$$

[SmackinYaUp]

it depends on the limpers

sometimes you play against people so often you know they only limp with pocket pairs so you can raise them pretty easily in position, get it HU and take it down 7/8 times or so

but against calling station retards i like to limp and not get all pissed off when they call call call

sometimes you can raise weak limpers for value, but in NL its kinda hard

[Genitruc]

My advice about limping behind isn't gospel by any means.

I just found a pool of players who paid me off light that made it very +ev to limp in position with any 2 and play my draws and monsters very strongly.

Against nits there's not a ton of value in this since they won't pay you off as much.