A thoery question that may or may not be relevent.

[Fnord]

Cash game, NLHE 6-handed. $150 stacks. $5 and $10 blinds.

You have never played a hand against your opponents and you will never play another hand with them again. After this hand the prop is over.

Easy Question: You are UTG with AA, what's your play?
Harder Question: You are UTG with 88, what's your play?

edit: Your opponents do not know that you will be leaving the game after this hand.

[taipan168]

Shouldn't this be in the short handed NL forum since you can reload? Anyway, for what it's worth:

Easy question: Standard 3x BB raise.
Hard question: Standard 3x BB raise.

[Fnord]

since you can reload?

LoL

Anyway, I posted it here because cash games are rarely this shallow, but tournies often are.

Hard question: Standard 3x BB raise.

Why is 3x better than shoving? Is shoving better than folding? By how much?

[taipan168]

Hard question: Standard 3x BB raise.

Why is 3x better than shoving? Is shoving better than folding? By how much?

I don't play shorthanded cash games, but in a tourney with a 1500 stack and 50/100 blinds I would actually probably make this 2.5x BB (assuming I'm at a buyin where I wouldn't get 548954890 callers) and c-bet the flop if I don't hit a set or undercards. I don't think shoving is a terrible play but I don't think it's really optimal with a 15x BB stack.

I wouldn't fold 88 in this spot. I'd definitely fold 66, 77 is right on the border and could go either way depending on reads on the table.

[|~|ypermegachi]

it's pretty hard to analyze a situation that will never happen. 15bb stacks in a cash game??? you can't even buyin that low.

also, you mentioned no reads, and mentioned no limpers/raises for AA.

assuming regular players, raise 88 all day long. 4x. calling/folding depending on who pushes.

assuming all folds, regular blinds, raise 3x for AA. 2/3 pot, 2/3 pot, push.

[|~|ypermegachi]

Anyway, I posted it here because cash games are rarely this shallow, but tournies often are.

you are always deep in cash. you are never deep in sngs.

[gingerwizard]

Easy Question: I like to Limp-shove. 6-max with blinds that high, there is no way someone won't raise. Sure at small stakes this is a standard raise, but to get the action you want the limp-shove is pretty cool. I mean you look so short so where you may get calls in a deeper game, here you don't offer enough implied odds to warrant calling wide in position, so there is a good chance it will just be folded around after a raise. A limp may look suspicious but since it's your only hand at the table you'll likely get a raise, just to feel you out.

Say you limp for $10. Pot is $25. Someone raises to $40. Pot is $65. You shove
Thats $110 more into $215. Nice odds for a call, especially if someone else called the first raise too. If he folds, you still made another $40!

Hard Question: Raise 3-4xBB > fold > call.
Call is poor: You're too likely to be raised at this stake. You can't call the raise. You can shove over it in the same way as for the AA, but thats a pretty risky play for your last $150.

Fold is fine: When you're not deep, 88 is tough to play after the flop. Sure you can rely on the old set or forget, but if you raised, things are trickier. You may not want to just give up 7 out of 8 raised pots here!

I like the raise because of the reasons I gave for not raising the AA. It looks too strong especially with your stack, and so you'll likely get folds all round. If you get put all in you may have a tricky decision, and the problem may turn into a pot odds one, but even 99-JJ has a hard time knowing what to do here facing your raise.

Since the short UTG raise gets lots of respect at a higher buyin table, you don't want to pull it with the preflop nuts in my opinion.

Nice post.

[K2 the ArmA]

In a cash game I'm playing the two hands exactly like I would with a 100bb stack.

[Fnord]

it's pretty hard to analyze a situation that will never happen.

I've created situations where this is a clear best answer and I don't think it's even very debatable.

In a cash game I'm playing the two hands exactly like I would with a 100bb stack.

Because you're not capable of thinking through how shallow money impacts your decisions and play of the hand?

[K2 the ArmA]

it's pretty hard to analyze a situation that will never happen.

I've created situations where this is a clear best answer and I don't think it's even very debatable.

In a cash game I'm playing the two hands exactly like I would with a 100bb stack.

Because you're not capable of thinking through how shallow money impacts your decisions and play of the hand?

Because I'm re-loading and playing it any differently takes away the hand's value?

[drmcboy]

Because I'm re-loading

no

you will be leaving the game after this hand

It seems like what is needed is some sort of generic unknown profile with calling ranges for a shove, re raise range of a 3x bet, re raise range of a limp, equity against AA/88 if we see a flop, implied odds, etc. But I'm lazy so someone else should do that.

[K2 the ArmA]

Because I'm re-loading

no

you will be leaving the game after this hand

It seems like what is needed is some sort of generic unknown profile with calling ranges for a shove, re raise range of a 3x bet, re raise range of a limp, equity against AA/88 if we see a flop, implied odds, etc. But I'm lazy so someone else should do that.

The point is there is no ITM and no reason for the other players to "call wide" when a desperate short stack pushes AI etc. There's no reason for the opp's to lean on me in a cash game if I'm shorted. Regardless of whether or not I am leaving this table, there is no reason to play the hand any differently in a cash game. Of course the situation is much different in an sng.

[Sprayed]

In this senerio, I'm looking to get my chips in regardless (6 handed table, 88 goes way up in value here). If I 3x raise pre and someone pushes, I'm calling. If I 3x raise pre and get callers and see a flop, I'm getting my chips in regardless of the flop because I'm committed. Isn't this covered in Getting Started in Hold'em and NLHTP in the short stack sections?

[TLR]

I raise the AA 3bb.
Regarding 88, with the given data I limp it and see what happe