Just draws

[minSim]

These hands are from last nights session. I am considering my FD, OESD play. I'm sorry there's one FR hand in it, but my play is the same as SH:

PokerStars Game #9385096760: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/12 - 14:50:59 (ET)
Table 'Eleonora II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: vatoloco76 ($168.60 in chips)
Seat 2: bmanner ($24.80 in chips)
Seat 3: stool01 ($45.45 in chips)
Seat 4: Fartalito ($64.05 in chips)
Seat 5: ChewyBoe ($8.85 in chips)
Seat 6: minSim ($65.10 in chips)
vatoloco76: posts small blind $0.25
bmanner: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to minSim [2c Ac]
stool01: calls $0.50
Fartalito: folds
ChewyBoe: calls $0.50
minSim: calls $0.50
vatoloco76: folds
bmanner: checks
*** FLOP *** [9c Jc 3d]
bmanner: checks
stool01: checks
ChewyBoe: bets $1
minSim: raises $63.60 to $64.60 and is all-in
bmanner: folds
stool01: folds
ChewyBoe said, "dude wtf"
ChewyBoe: calls $7.35 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [9c Jc 3d] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jc 3d Kc] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChewyBoe: shows [Jh Qc] (a pair of Jacks)
minSim: shows [2c Ac] (a flush, Ace high)
minSim collected $18.05 from pot

PokerStars Game #9384981336: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/12 - 14:43:10 (ET)
Table 'Meissa V' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: gismo71 ($6.70 in chips)
Seat 2: werzed ($42.30 in chips)
Seat 3: thisisbart02 ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 5: Mindfight ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 6: plours12 ($45.25 in chips)
Seat 7: minSim ($52.70 in chips)
Seat 8: Zeb Ryden ($65.40 in chips)
Seat 9: geringmi ($12.30 in chips)
gismo71: posts small blind $0.25
werzed: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to minSim [Td Kd]
thisisbart02: folds
Mindfight: calls $0.50
plours12: calls $0.50
minSim: calls $0.50
Zeb Ryden: folds
geringmi: raises $1 to $1.50
gismo71: calls $1.25
werzed: folds
Mindfight: calls $1
plours12: calls $1
minSim: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [8d Qd 5s]
gismo71: checks
Mindfight: checks
plours12: checks
minSim: checks
geringmi: bets $2.50
mcvalenc joins the table at seat #4
gismo71: folds
Mindfight: folds
plours12: calls $2.50
minSim: raises $48.70 to $51.20 and is all-in
geringmi: folds
plours12: folds

PokerStars Game #9386281437: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/12 - 16:09:27 (ET)
Table 'Penelope III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: gawdawaful ($88.95 in chips)
Seat 2: Rafvdv ($48.05 in chips)
Seat 3: likefee1 ($22.55 in chips)
Seat 4: minSim ($42.25 in chips)
Seat 5: tyguy999 ($38.50 in chips)
Seat 6: _Yan_shot_ ($20.45 in chips)
minSim: posts small blind $0.25
tyguy999: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to minSim [7c 6c]
_Yan_shot_: raises $1 to $1.50
gawdawaful: folds
Rafvdv: folds
likefee1: folds
minSim: calls $1.25
tyguy999: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [2c 5c 9d]
minSim: checks
tyguy999: checks
_Yan_shot_: bets $2
minSim: raises $38.75 to $40.75 and is all-in
tyguy999: folds
_Yan_shot_: folds

PokerStars Game #9386309034: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/12 - 16:11:12 (ET)
Table 'Phaedra V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: minSim ($50 in chips)
Seat 2: Tervapiru ($49.45 in chips)
Seat 3: Like_corona ($124.25 in chips)
Seat 4: HerbieGo ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 5: sasa223 ($48.25 in chips)
Seat 6: DerWixer ($49.35 in chips)
DerWixer: posts small blind $0.25
minSim: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to minSim [Jd Td]
Tervapiru: folds
Like_corona: folds
HerbieGo: folds
sasa223: raises $1.50 to $2
DerWixer: folds
minSim: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [9c 6h Qs]
minSim: checks
sasa223: bets $3.50
minSim: raises $44.50 to $48 and is all-in
sasa223: folds

As you can see, I play these draws very straightforward.
In a nutshut, I C/R all-in when OOP and check behind or RR allin when in position.

This way I have tons of FE, but I'm not sure it's the most profitable way to play them...probably not.

OOP: C/C, lead any turn could be good. But people seem to fold right away when the flush completes, either on the turn or river, so getting paid of is pretty hard...at least in my experience.

In position: I have tried the pot-sized RR in position a few times, but that one doesn't seem to buy me a free card against TP so it gets difficult on the turn. And again, probably you ain't getting paid of when the flush completes.

Any thoughts are very appreciated!

[bigspenda73]

They work better if you weak lead, get raised, then shove. You'll need to balance out overbet shoving your draws with the nuts every once in a while against observant opponents.

BTW, by pushing these boards you lose your edge on the turn or river where you could be betting for value against typical calling station type opponents. Are you better than these guys? Why would you just want to constantly flip with their TP hands with your draws?

[bode]

hand 1: no need to shove, just raise it up to 3-4 times his bet.

hand 2: again, make a normal raise if you want them to stick around. Youre just blowing them off the pot by pushing like this. You may get some random donk to go AI with you, but i think youre losing value by doing this.

Oh, and if you arent balancing this by shoving w/ the nuts and air then this will become horribly transparent and thinking villains will be able to play perfectly against it.

hand 3: i try not to call w/ SC's from the blinds much. Youre out of position the entire hand which makes it harder to play. Again, why push, only better hands are calling.

[minSim]

Thanks for the advice.

Making a normal size RR in position is good I think, I'll try that. I have in the past as well, but it's a hard when lead into on the turn again when the flush didn't complete. That seemed to happend quite often with an A on the board.
But maybe that were just a few incidents in a row.
Is there any good in just calling a 3/4 to psb on the flop? Or do we have to raise for the free card and build a pot for when the flush hits?

OOP is harder yes. I agree with you to not call too much out of the blinds. The table was just a blind stealing fest, so I wanted to do something back. Imo sc's are pretty ok to do that with, but correct me if I'm wrong. What hands do you choose to play back at blind stealing then, A8-, K10-?

Situations occur though that you are OOP with a draw. A have seen a C/C, lead any turn line being advocated by someone on the forum a while back, I think that's ok.
Lead flop and getting called is shitty as it makes the turn very hard.
When lead flop and getting raised an allin is good I think?