Is this game more about patience, or reads and steals?

[grasshoppah]

Obviously, you have multiple skills to be consistently succesful.

The fews times i have made it to final tables in MTT... my flop percentage is around 15%. My non-blind flop percentage has been below 10% each time.

Does this mean i am just a pussy who is afraid to play anything but premium hands? And when i hit i bet... when i don't i don't. I try to stay alive and fold top pair to aggression on scary boards. When i think i have the best hand... i try to get it all in.

blah blah blah.

can you win consistently by playing a safe style like that all the time? Does that sound safe to eveyone else?

granted... i am trying to improve ... so i 'try' to play the way i think you are supposed to... stealing and 'reading'.... "looking for weakness". but i completely suck at that and i generally lose, lose, lose.

so should i just stick to my "boring safe" game? it seems when i stick to that... and don't get rattle by bad beats... i am profitable. as soon as i try to "expand" my game... i go right down the crapper. Basically, i feel as though i am just stuck with getting good cards and hitting flops when no one else does. Cause anytime i try to go outside of my safe game... i lose. But then when i wait and wait... i have to deal with the bad beats that cripple me... and then i go into 50/50 push mode.

Does anyone get me?

Yes, I am somewhat frustrated at the moment.

[Reidak]

Im going to keep this short.

You have proven capable of making it deep. Making the money. Making the deep money. But where is all the money at?

First place.

You can cash deep 25 times. This includes 8ths, 9ths, final table bubbles. They might add up to what you win when you finally reach a first place 1 in 25 times. And thats being generous.

In your endgame (ending states of a tournament) turn a blind eye to the position. The only tihng you should be thinking about when it comes to the number of remaning competitors is how are my OPPONENTS going to change? They become tigther. more passive. they want a FT under their belts.

The can happen with 30 players to go. This is where you go from your normal "A", textbook style game to a looser, shoot for the moon style I CAN DANCE ALL DAY (fps doug reference) style. Look for the chips. Dont be a donk, but if you see an edge you take it. If you see a guy being passive take it to him HARD. (or her. chicks play too.)

Basically. Stop caring about your deep cashes. Get there, smile, and go turbo.

but dont be a donkey. people get confused sometimes and donk. thats never good.

EDIT : i reread the OP and realized my post sort of didnt answer his question too well. oh well, its advice none the less.

[Wikkiwikki]

I think good solid straight forward poker is mostly where it's at. If your trying to bluff and re-steal etc., have a good reason for doing so.
Playing quality starting hands in position is what makes you good. Knowing when to push back, bluff, re-steal is what make players great. As long as your playing good you should be winning or at least treading water.
Also you can try getting more aggressive after you've won a few pots and have some chips to play with, limping more suited connectors and small PP etc. but don't get carried away if you start losing chips, just tighten back up rinse and repeat.

[NLHE lahooozaher]

I think good solid straight forward poker is mostly where it's at. Playing quality starting hands in position is what makes you good. Knowing when to push back, bluff, re-steal is what make players great.

QFT, IMO you don't have to make big moves until you surpass the $22 MTTs. You can beat those just by being patient and not stealing too much.

[grasshoppah]

i just made another final table at a 180 $10 SnG. won a 27 $10 while playing the other.

would still be playing except my KK was cracked in a 3 way pot that woulda had me sitting comfortable at the final table... instead i limped into the final table... and was 3rd knocked out. actually... i made a bad play to get knocked out. i was SS with 8 bb left. the big stack was raising alot... he finally showed QQ on a hand everyone folded around. he was first to act... i was BB... he raised again. so i got out my "professional poker player thinking cap"... and said to myself... "he keeps raising... he just showed QQ... he's gonna raise us again with something like 78o... Kx,QJ/T... cuz we are supposed to be scared cuz he just showed Queens." so based on my "professional reading skills" , I decide to push my last 9K with A7o... he had A9s.

LOL!

Maybe alot of decent players like me are not consistently good because we think we gotta 'make moves'... and all that stuff. In reality, you really gotta be sure about your 'moves and reads' to act on them... AND you gotta be able to give up even though you think you might could be wanna know if your right about what maybe you think he is playing when you are re-raised. So you can either lose money making moves and seeing everyone cards in every situation you make a move in... OR... you can just chill the (beep) out.... and... watch other people do it while they get knocked out. meanwhile, you make mental notes to yourself about sneaky suspicious things you observe... after they are confirmed about 50 times in every situation.... you can start making moves. Does that sound right to any of you 10k a month-ers.

here's my chill out "boring" stats. What do you think about the pots won without showdown stat?

207 hands played and saw flop:
- 4 times out of 24 while in small blind (16%)
- 13 times out of 27 while in big blind (48%)
- 10 times out of 156 in other positions (6%)
- a total of 27 times out of 207 (13%)

Pots won at showdown - 7 out of 12 (58%)
Pots won without showdown - 18

[grasshoppah]

huh... no replies?

i thought my last post was profound.

it's true, my buy-in is rarely more than $20.

but what do you guys think about my hands played stats for a 180 tourney.... 250 hands or so? how does that compare to the number of hands some of you more experienced guys would play?

[drmcboy]

analyzing these stats from one tourney just isn't helpful, too many factors besides cards dictate how many hands you play.

The answer to your OP question is It Depends.

If people are playing loose passive, then yes, you just need to make hands. If they are playing weak tight, you can make more moves. If you aren't getting paid off with big hands, you need to get in there a bit to soften up the image. If you're getting looked up on bluff after bluff, then slow down. Note that short term neither of these mean you are playing bad. Sometimes people just have nothing, and sometimes they always have it.

I think you are on the right track. Starting out, just play solid values, then as you play more, you'll start to see things like betting patterns that don't make sense, people raising too much, always limp folding, etc and you can start making more plays.

[grasshoppah]

yea... can't tell much about my entire game from the stats of 1 tourney.

i just wondered if it could be compared to how many hands better guys play. but you're right.. to many factors to make a usable comparison.

cool... on the right track. i'll try to get another 50,000 hands in next week.

[Sprayed]

yea... can't tell much about my entire game from the stats of 1 tourney.

i just wondered if it could be compared to how many hands better guys play. but you're right.. to many factors to make a usable comparison.

cool... on the right track. i'll try to get another 50,000 hands in next week.

Every tourney is different. The solid players don't really have a true style. They adjust to the table. Although, some lean more to one style or another, but they still will adjust and play according to the dynamics of the table.