Your move?

[bjsaust]

Early on table:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 (t1560)
MP1 (t1490)
MP2 (t2760)
CO (t1150)
Button (t2120)
SB (t1440)
Hero (t1480)
UTG (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, Q.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 2 folds, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t100) Q, 4, 5 (5 players)
SB folds, Hero bets t50, UTG+1 calls t50, CO folds, Button calls t50.

Turn: (t250) 2 (3 players)
Hero bets t200, UTG+1 folds, Button raises to t400, Hero ???




I should have bet more on flop, but how do you handle turn?

[drmcboy]

hmmm. spade bad and it's even a bad spade.

I want to fold but I think you have to call.

If he has a flush I think you're getting his stack if you fill.

This could be Qx with a spade, or 45.

could also be a woefully misplayed set where your FD is good.

The river will be iffy but if he makes a real bet you can safely fold. Maybe he'll bluff you out sometimes with and As + pair type hand but I think he'll check those usually.

[GatorJH]

first step - fold pre-flop, even from the SB

as played your bet on the flop was too small. You are betting 50 into a pot of 100. Make it 70-80 here.

I think you need to call the turn here and hope to either fill up on the river or hope he checks it down if you miss.

[bjsaust]

I was BB, def would have folded from SB.

Should have raised to 80. Dont think it would actually knock any draws out at this level with that pot, but at least I'd have made it more mathmatically incorrect.

Thanks guys.

[taipan168]

I actually like to overbet in this spot when there are so many opps seeing the flop. Make it like 120-150 to go. The problem with a 50-80 bet is that if UTG+1 calls then the late position players may well have correct odds to chase the flush.

Plus, if anybody limped in with Qx you're taking their stack if they raise.

[parsifals]

i like what tai says here. he always gets the last word

but i think i'm just boosting my post count.

[Fortune 500]

I actually like to overbet in this spot when there are so many opps seeing the flop. Make it like 120-150 to go. The problem with a 50-80 bet is that if UTG+1 calls then the late position players may well have correct odds to chase the flush.

Plus, if anybody limped in with Qx you're taking their stack if they raise.

Somewhat agreed... I'm betting at least pot here, and more than happy to get it all in.

I hate that turn card. I actually consider either letting go or pushing, with a slight preference towards folding.

I don't call here. Ever. If we fold, we've still got over 1100 and room to play.

I fold turn.

[taipan168]

I hate that turn card. I actually consider either letting go or pushing, with a slight preference towards folding.

I don't call here. Ever. If we fold, we've still got over 1100 and room to play.

I fold turn.

I hate the turn card too, but I agree with drmc and Gator, I call here and see what comes on the river. If I fill up I'm obviously getting it AI, if not I check and hope to get a cheap showdown (which if the river comes another spade may be likely). Even if opp bets big and we have to fold we still have 1000 chips behind which is plenty at 10/20 blinds.

[Fortune 500]

I hate that turn card. I actually consider either letting go or pushing, with a slight preference towards folding.

I don't call here. Ever. If we fold, we've still got over 1100 and room to play.

I fold turn.

I hate the turn card too, but I agree with drmc and Gator, I call here and see what comes on the river. If I fill up I'm obviously getting it AI, if not I check and hope to get a cheap showdown (which if the river comes another spade may be likely). Even if opp bets big and we have to fold we still have 1000 chips behind which is plenty at 10/20 blinds.

I'm intrigued by this line. You, Gator and Drmc are probably better players than I am, so I bow to your judgment somewhat, but walk me through this one.

When he raises us on the turn, we're being laid 4:1... There's certainly a fair chance we're ahead here, but the button's range is pretty wide in a limped pot I suspect, and we could be up against any number of hands that beat us. The board is straight, and flushing... it's hard to LOVE two pair here.

We're not going to fill up too often. We've got 4 outs to fill up, so we're talking about 8 percent of the time. Our stack is only about pot-sized after a call, so our implied odds if we hit are an additional 1000 chips.

Given that we're OOP, what are the chances that we won't face another large bet on the river? I'd say that if we check, 50 percent of the time we're going to face a large bet, and 50 percent he checks behind (just a guesstimate).

I just don't know that I like a call here... Why am I wrong?

[drmcboy]

There aren't really any hands that won't bet the river that beat us, so:

50% of the time, we fold to his bet - so we lose 200

50% of the time, he checks, our hand is good - we win 850.

Unless he is going to bluff on the river a lot, we have to call turn.