flop the nuts, QQ tough spot, KK nightmare

[mixchange]

Hand 1: I'm a bit scared someone may have the 9s for the FH, but could this just be 1010 or JJ? (that's all I really beat). I'm especially scared by UTG's smooth call, seems like he's got the goods and wants me to call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($198.50)
BB ($53.70)
UTG ($94.15)
MP ($200.45)
CO ($46.40)
Button ($67)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $4, UTG calls $4, MP calls $4.

Flop: ($20) 9, 4, 4 (4 players)
Hero bets $10, BB raises to $48.7, UTG calls $48.70, MP folds, Hero ?




Hand 2: Do you think he's calling a shove? do you like my re-raise amount?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($95.10)
CO ($97)
Button ($38.40)
SB ($123)
BB ($65.75)
UTG ($68.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, T. CO posts a blind of $1.50.
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, CO (poster) raises to $3, 1 fold, SB calls $2.50, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($15.50) 8, 7, 9 (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, UTG folds, Hero raises to $5, CO raises to $12, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $33, CO calls $16.

Turn: ($78.50) Q (2 players)
Hero ??




Hand 3:

I regretted such a small raise as soon as I clicked, $5 seems better. With two limp/calls, I found this flop to be very scary...I suspected both had PP. Am I too paranoid?

Do you call turn? I like my check on the turn, do you?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($75.85)
CO ($66.85)
Button ($5.15)
Hero ($77.50)
BB ($39.75)
UTG ($64.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
UTG raises to $1, MP calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.50, UTG calls $2, MP folds.

Flop: ($10) 2, 6, 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $5, BB calls $5, UTG calls $5.

Turn: ($25) 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $9.5, UTG raises to $20, Hero??

[apunisher]

heres some general advice in all three hands, when you re betting, bet more. WHen youre raising, raise more.

Hand 1: Pf fine, flop, make it at least 13. This is a tough spot, i would call flop and either call utg's shove or put him ai on turn. To me this seems to be the line that is most likely to get him to put it in with JJs or TTs. But I am a payoff wizard in spots like these so take it fwiw.

Hand 2: 3bet flop to at least 10 for gods sakes, i would prob make it 12. THen when CO 4bets you can get a lot more money in on the flop which sets up a nice turn shove.

Hand 3: Make it 5 pf. Bet 3/4 pot on flop, as played i would make it 8. Dont check turn unless ur intending to check raise, which i dont like here. Just bet and fold to a raise probably. I would make it something like 17 to 18.

[noble007]

Yeah I myself have been learning when to fold overpairs and I pretty sure hand 1 is one of those times. (But bet more on flop)

Hand_2
I don't mind raising a little low as you did on the flop given you have the nuts and co is still to act and I like the re-raise to 33. Given the co just called (& didnt push himself) i might think a bit and then bet a little under half pot on turn - enough to get some good money in the pot but low enough to get him to come over the top of us if he thinks we may be on some sort of draw or weaker hand.

Hand 3 bet more on flop, and as I said am learning to fold overpairs and looks like the turn is place to do that. Probably bet fold.

[mixchange]

Hand 4:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($65.90)
BB ($78.75)
Hero ($51.05)
MP ($49.05)
CO ($9.05)
Button ($41.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A.
Hero raises to $1.5, 2 folds, Button calls $1.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($3.75) 2, Q, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $9.5, Hero calls $6.50.

Turn: ($22.75) 7 (2 players)
Button raises All-in
Hero ??

easy call right?


Hand 5:

Just don't fold a set cuz there's a potential flopped flush right?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($29.95)
SB ($158.55)
BB ($73.85)
UTG ($101.95)
Hero ($91)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 8.
UTG raises to $3, Hero calls $3, 1 fold, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($10) Q, 7, 8 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $7, Hero raises to $17, SB folds, UTG calls $10.

Turn: ($44) K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $15, UTG raises to $45, Hero calls $30.

River: ($134) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $36.95 (All-In), Hero calls $26 (All-In).

Final Pot: $196.95

[benny999]

why bet 1/2 pot or less in the first 3 hands, instead of more?

[apunisher]

Hand 4: 3bet flop, get it ai on turn

hand 5: Raise flop more, i would pot it=24. Make it 35ish on turn, call shove

[zenbitz]

1) fold, but it's close. Shorty probably doesn't have squat (A9, pp), but UTG didn't try to shut you out and that scares me a little. A donkish or loose read on UTG would get me to shove.

2) just bet there's only PSB behind.

3) I like the check if you are going to fold. Bad check if you are worried about getting bluffed or semi-bluffed off. Bet/fold more expensive but safer fold (assuming there is enough behind, I didn't check)

4) 3-bet shove flop. As played, shoot self.

5) I think there are two ways to play this. Get it all in on the flop (vs. people who play draws aggro or are generally gamb000lifric), OR just flat call the flop bet, try to dodge a club and/or boat up and stack-a-frush. As played, this really has to be a flush, KQ or another set. I strongly consider folding to the turn raise (it's not a bluff). You have 10 outs, pot odds of 3:1 implied odds of maybe 4:1. Close.

If you are going to call the river, you should push the turn though.

[mixchange]

benny -

Hand 1 I guess I felt like more than 1/2 pot initially would scare away a lot of the hands I beat. $13 was probably better.

Hand 2- I didn't want to lose anyone with the nuts there was no FD and it was multiway, didn't see a point in tipping off my hand too quickly on the flop. turn shove seems natural though, just wondering if I should try to trap more, or if that's just overplaying

hand 3 I didn't like this flop -- all small-mid pps and I really felt like both villains were set miners, neither with an Ace, so by the river I'm only winning 2 out of 3 times... I wanted to see what they did on the flop without committing too much. Both smooth calling really worried me. Then, I think it's clear one of them has a set by the turn...




zen: lol

hand 4 - I should note on my read on button is a bit of an aggro raiser, and I could get him to do the betting to get more value. Too dangerous?

hand 5 - definitely a dilemma, would love more thoughts -- why are you so sure its a set or flush? Just the turn C/R? Might as well have gotten it all in then if I was going that way before another club peels off.

[dsaxton]

First hand, I'd fold. The initial raiser doesn't have you beat but the cold-caller does.

Second hand, raise more on the flop, push turn.

Third hand, raise more preflop, bet turn.

[pokerroomace]

hand 1 - raise a bit more pf. you don't want the possibility of a 4 handed pot with your QQ oop. maybe raise to $6 or $6.5. actually even $5 is ok.
on the flop you should bet $15. as played i'm really not sure if you should call/fold. BB probs has a 9. utg could have 9x, TT, JJ or trips+.
i think you should fold. utg is too strong and you're oop.

hand 2 - i prefer betting pf. don't limp - take control of the hand. limping isn't that bad though.
your flop raise to $5 is terrible. you need to raise to like $14+. your reraise of CO is ok. turn push is fine. pot is quite big already.

hand 3 - raise more pf as you said.
on the flop bet between $7 and $10.
as played bet the turn. bet $15. as played i would call the turn raise, but only because it's a smallish bet. you played this hand so bad though. underbet every single street.

hand 4 - raise more pf (again!).
flop bet is good this time. calling the flop raise is alright. but how does villain play? will he be raising with Qx or a flush draw. i think he probably will, so a flop 3bet is best i think. calling flop isn't too bad, you give him the chance to bet again on the turn with a worse hand.
turn check is good. when he pushes i would probably fold (but that might be a bit too tight). it really depends how this guy has been playing. if you think he would play Qx like this then you have to call. but if he seems to be a decent player then you really don't beat anything. it's unlikely spot for him to be bluffing too. but this call is totally read dependent.

hand 5 - i hate how you played it. pf is fine.
you didn't raise enough on the flop. i would raise to $25+. you want to get all your chips in and you don't want players drawing to a free flush. i would be happy stacking off to a flopped flush on this flop. you still have outs. but you really have to get your money in. a flush stacks you, but you need to get value from weaker hands than yours and you need to make a Qoxc flush draw pay to see the next cards.
your turn bet is awful. bet $30-$45. you want all your chips in the pot. don't let the flush draw for free. when he crs to $45, just push allin. his line looks like a monster but you still have outs and you really can't fold this. it looks like he has a super strong hand, but we're not folding with the big PO. and we don't know enough about villain to fold. we have 10 outs against a flush anyway (approx. 22% chance of winning).
river call is standard. the 4th flush card didn't come. it looks like he has the flush but you can't fold here with 5to1 PO. call and hope for the best.


main thing you need to change is you bet sizes. bet way more! you should be betting pot preflop and 2/3 - 3/4 pot postflop

[mixchange]

Thx 4 all the help guys

I normally do make bigger bets, but I posted these hands because of some odd reads and strategies. I should have played them more aggressively on the turns, but I like my flop play overall.

Preflop sometimes I only bet 3x the blind if the table has been folding a lot to get some action, if there are no limpers behind me. I add 1x per limper. For some reason making it 4x with no limpers scares a lot of people that would give you good action away. If I can get a call PF, why not stick with 3x? We want a call with AA or KK.

Results:

Hand 1: I folded due to UTG's cold call and UTG had 34 suited for trips BB had 1010

Hand 2: I shoved turn and got called by Q 9. Great action card. I don't think villain would have called if I had shoved flop, so I like it as played except my first raise could have been to like $7

Hand 3: My instincts were correct here, despite the berating I got in this thread. I normally wouldn't play KK this way, but when I saw the limp/call I thought both were set mining and then the flop of small cards I thought there was a strong chance one of the set miners' had hit. If it had been A J 8 I would have been more confident. After both cold-call the flop, I felt a check was prudent as two calls I think hid a monster. So when UTG re-raises BB, I figured I was drawing to two outs...

I folded and UTG had 66 for the FH. Really had to go with my read on this one.

Hand 4: I call, button shows KQo. I just checked and let him hang himself. Most people think this is bad, but I felt I had a solid read on this opponent to be aggro without the goods. Of course, he could have had the flush. I just hate being scared to go AI on any board that has a 3 to flush. I think stronger hands don't just push here, and a set or flush has no reason to just open push. but air or a weak pair it is ev+

Hand 5: Set over set. My 8s against his 7s. My turn bet was one of those donk bets 'please re-raise me' that seems to work quite often. I was scared of him getting scared off by the potential flush, so I let him commit himself letting him think he had FE. you are right that I should just re-raise AI on turn though.

I don't see how weaker hands will be willing to stack off on the flop with a potential flush, except for an under set.

[pokerroomace]

even with the results and your "reads" i hate how you player a lot of these hands and IMO i stick with my thoughts from before the results were posted.
just because it turned out well this time doesn't mean you made the correct decision.

obviously you had reads and i can't put myself in your position when the hands are played, but i don't like how most of these hands are played.

hand 1 post flop is fine.

hand 2:
i like you turn push as i posted above, but your flop play is so incredibly lame. yes - you won the hand, but you didn't play it well. doesn't matter who your opponent is, you played the flop bad.

hand 3:
again, you had a good result, but it's still very badly played. this time you got it right, but on another hand you lose to a donk that hits his gutshot with his 56 or flush draw.
you should have been betting bigger. you're destined to lose money in this hand. you don't have to get stacked though. this time they did have a set, but in another situation you get outdrawn or lose a lot of value from TPTK.

hand 4:
you let him "hang himself"?
you would have stacked him anyway. this guy is stacking off with TP ok kicker.

hand 5:
2pair probably stacks off on this flop too. and TP might not fold either depending on your opponent.


Quote:
["If I can get a call PF, why not stick with 3x? We want a call with AA or KK. "]
but do you want a call with 56s? or ATo?
the reason not to stick to 3x is because you find you are getting too many calls. your opponents ranges are therefore large and you find it hard to play postflop.
according to your thinking you might as well minbet pf so you'll get the maximum number of calls.
the reason you don't is because of greater FE and you want to get more money in with your good hands.
3x is actually ok-ish (more tournament strategy). but your reason sucks. you don't raise to always get a call!
i my self raise to 3.5xBB + 1BB per limper. i used to raise to 4xBB but I felt that was too big as i moved up the stakes. atm, i feel 3.5xBB is the "perfect" (for me) balance between too much and too little.
in different games you have to raise different amounts though. if you know you will get a lot of caller sif you openraise to 5xbb pf and you hold AA then you should do. or more if you think you can get more out of it.
an 3.5xbb open raise is pot btw. it gives bb 2to1 PO to call

[Genitruc]

hand 1 = shove

hand 2 = shove turn

hand 3 i like bet-folding the turn when utg goes crazy and bet-calling the turn when semi-shorty goes crazy. As played I think it's a very very close fold, prob to utg's 2s full or 6s full.

[Genitruc]

hand 5 I like a call and expect to see AhQx or KhQx or Qx or set.

hand 6 it sucks cuz you're beat here prob 75% of the time. You still have outs though and it s lame folding river getting those odds with a set. But you're beat here very often. I prefer getting it AI on flop or turn with some outs when trailing.

[mixchange]

even with the results and your "reads" i hate how you player a lot of these hands and IMO i stick with my thoughts from before the results were posted.
just because it turned out well this time doesn't mean you made the correct decision.

First, the reason I posted these hands, even though they turned out well, was that I thought they could have been played better and many of the spots are about overall philosophy, not necessarily about the result of that specific hand.

Second, I get the impression you don't think I have much of a hand reading ability the way you phrased your opening statement. I suppose my re-raises are smaller than most people's and I misplayed the betting in some of these hands, but I do think I am an "ok" hand reader.

Hand 1: Why is it so bad? I got him to call $33 with just TPGK. If I raise it to $10, he probably just calls. But by doing $5, he was confident enough to re-raise me and I got another chance to raise back -- what I really wanted. With huge re-raises, people are apt to call or fold. I have found 2.5-3.5 their raise for my re-raise to be a good amount to 'keep them going'. Would you really call a $10 or $12 re-raise on the flop with just top pair with a queen kicker? Aren't we pushing the value of our hand a bit much?

hand 3: I just have to stand by my read on this hand. The limp call screamed PP, and the raggy flop had me worried. I think $7.50 would have been the correct amount, about normally what I cbet, between 2/3 and full. But I stand by my check on the turn after both players cold call.

hand 4: the psychology of the aggro guys to me is that if I bet hard, he folds. But if I show weakness, he bets harder than his hand value warrants and I gain value b showing weakness. I lose value to them by showing strength.

Also, I don't want a maximum number of calls with KK/AA, but I do want at least one. I'm actually ok with 2. Give me a break on the mainraise thing... and I dunno if you realized that in that hand, I was the first to enter the pot with no limpers behind me. With each limper, I add 1x. I think you are splitting hairs between your 3.5x and my 3x.

Genitruc: Isn't going AI on flop the worst thing we can do in Hand 5? Doesn't that fold what we beat and just get us called by what beats us?

[mixchange]

Curious to see what you think of this hand, PR. I think I got good value here, even though by the river it's not much for him to call. I feel like 5x raising would push my hand too much, no?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($194.70)
MP ($115.10)
CO ($197.25)
Hero ($155.05)
SB ($54.75)
BB ($111.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4, 6.
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($7) 7, 8, 4 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($13) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $6.

River: ($31) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, SB calls $7.

Final Pot: $51

[benny999]

minsim, i sort of like the small raise in hand 2, since someone perceived you're weak and went nuts with a weak hand.

but other opps may just take the implied/pot odds from the flop and info from how you play the turn.
for example what if a 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, T, or J comes off on the turn? you may lose a bigger pot to QJ/boat, or they may get scared off by the card.

i think the majority of the time, it's best to just put in large bets, both with good hands and bluffs.
doing that offers poorer odds, puts more pressure on (ie tilts ppl), and makes you harder to read. but it's also higher variance...

[mixchange]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($115.95)
Hero ($140.85)
SB ($99)
BB ($66.70)
UTG ($98.50)
MP ($98.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
2 folds, CO raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, CO calls $6.

Flop: ($21.50) J, Q, 2 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $11, CO calls $11.

Turn: ($43.50) T (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $22, CO calls $22.

River: ($87.50) 8 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $40, CO calls $40.

Final Pot: $167.50

Results in white below:
CO has Ah Jd (one pair, jacks).
Hero has Kc Ac (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins $167.50.

This is another hand where I think I hit the value dead on. He called me down with just a jack for almost a full stack. Betting ttoo much more and I would lose him.

[Genitruc]

Instead of hands 5 and 6 I meant hands 4 and 5

[pokerroomace]

your bets are too small in every single hand you post. bet 2/3 pot!

in hand 6:
raise more on the turn.
raise way more on the river.

in hand 7:
you actually played this hand ok.
only thing i would have done different raise to $12+ on flop.
flop bet is fine ( i would have bet 2/3 pot since 1/2 pot would be a bit unusual, but for you it isn't).
turn is ok. i think you could have maybe got more by betting $30-$40.
river is also ok. but again, maybe a $60 bet is better.

you have the nuts in this hand, so you want to win a big pot. big hand = big pot. if you bet the turn for $33. you have a $100+ on the river. now you can make a $50 no problems or even better a $75 bet. actually you would have pushed the river and possibly stacked him.
you could have taken an extra $35 off your opponent in this hand. if only you had bet the turn harder.

i don't think you played this hand badly though. i might have taken the same line postflop. there are some players you feel will fold to a strong bet, so you bet half pot all the way. not too bad.

but consider betting bigger in future in an attempt to stack him on a later street

[jackvance]

I do this smaller betting too sometimes to string someone along, but I think it's a bad thing to do consistently. I feel people can see through this strategy quite quickly (a few showdowns). I might be wrong in this, but I know I sure as hell see through it rather quickly when someone else does this.

It's fine to do on occassion though when people don't know what it means, if you generally bet stronger - that way (betting 2/3-3/4 pot) you have a better balance between pricing people to see the next card, making it usable as both a bluff (often cbet) and a value bet.

Betting small can basically can only mean you want to string them along or have them 'annoyance raise' you.. it doesn't work well as a bluff, doesn't price out draws, etc..

[mixchange]

I guess its hard for me to change the strategy of a 'winning' team, I've been trying to break into 100NL for awhile and the last few days I've been up 8 buy-ins, but that doesn't mean I couldn't be doing better, especially for when a downswing comes back.

I guess what is hard to calculate is all the times I maybe picked up a little value vs. got nailed by a chaser badly on the river, which did just happen to me via backdoor flush by not betting hard enough... then I had a hand today where two 10s hit the flop and I had a 10, so did someone else with a worse kicker and I prolly missed value there.

I definitely bet harder with obvious draws out there, but I'll start betting harder and see how it goes.

[benny999]

also sometimes larger bets are better just so u get more $ in before a scare card comes on the turn.

like if u have AA and flop is 223 rainbow, it's better to bet larger, because 55 type hands will be scared on lots of turns, and call a smaller bet at the same frequency.