Question about when to shove

[nooby]

I was wondering if some players would enlighten me on what kind of cards I need in order to shove and WHY with those particular cards. I would also like to know how short my stack needs to be and WHY my stack needs to be that short. Right now im playing $1.20 9 player no limit turbos (not that turbos should influence your answer) but im sure the low buy in does. Because the limits I play at are so small the players are extremely light to call a raise. Players simply arent tight enough to spot and shove on. Even if there is one tight player who folds about 70% of the time or more, and I have great fold equity against, there is atleast 1 other loose light caller in between me and him. Please help me. Thank You

[badgers]

Wow, that's an incredibly complex question. The general rule for what size stack to shove is around 10BBs. That's because at 10 BB's, a standard raise and a cbet cripples our stack, and we're pretty much priced into calling a push anyway (after our standard raise).

As to which cards to shove, all I can say is I would rather shove 23o in the SB when it's folded to me than A2 UTG. You didn't mention position in your post which could be quite telling. In 1.20s, you need to factor in that they call looser and make adjustments accordingly (tighten up pushing range).

Get SitnGo Wizard for a 30 day trial and mess about with the numbers to understand push/fold play better.

[Sprayed]

You need to post examples. It's hard to answer your questions because it depends. Do some searches and read-up. Generally, if you have 10bbs and you make a standard raise of like 3xbb and you are called, post flop you are committed. If your hand doesn't hit the flop then you are faced with a tough decision.

Therefore, pushing when around 10bbs will help you to win in two ways. You either get them to all fold and you steal the blinds or someone calls and you win in a showdown. If you lose, so what, you were nearly dead anyways.

As for the cards, they don't really matter at times. For example, if you had < 10bbs on the sb or bu and it is folded to you, you can safely and correctly push with just about any two. However, if your opponent(s) on your left are very loose or have monstrous stacks, then you need to be more selective with the hands you push. But, when folded to and you have < 10bbs, you can push with 54s+, 22+, Ax, Kx+ from just about any position. But keep in mind of the playing styles of the people that are left to call and decide if you really want to push K2o from mp when the bb has 50bbs and is a LAGtard.

When you get down to 5bbs and you are UTG just push any two. The blinds will take away any FE that you had so you might as well use the FE you have left and push.

[bjsaust]

Yeah, you need to post examples and get a feel for it.

A basic feel for it, is if you would raise PF, and then a bet or call on the flop would put you all in or close anyway, then you should just push in the first place. Likewise if your opponent called your PF bet and would need to be all in to bet or call the flop, then push. Basically its the same decision you had originally, but by looking ahead and realising whats going to happen anyway, you create extra fold equity by making it a choice for many more chips.

Theres lots of other situations, but thats a start. The 10M rule is basically a simplification of that, since thats the point at which you tend to get into the area I'm talking about.

[dsmrolla06]

10x bb isnt the magic number either. In certain situation i will push up to 16x the bb, and in other do a standard raise with 9 or 10x the bb. i just depends...

[bjsaust]

Agreed, but its a general rule of thumb you can start with.

[Sprayed]

Example: you in the sb with 30bbs and bb has < 10bbs = insta shove with any two. The key is opponent having < 10bbs. Baring this example, open shoving more than 10bbs though isn't usually the best play.

[dsmrolla06]

Example: you in the sb with 30bbs and bb has < 10bbs = insta shove with any two. The key is opponent having < 10bbs. Baring this example, open shoving more than 10bbs though isn't usually the best play.

]

I dont think insta shoving atc in the sb when bb has 10bb or less is always the best depending on how wide theyre calling, although it generally is ok against most players. In certain situations i will push more than 10x bb, such as if its a lose table and its a hand where im going to have to call a reraise anyways but wouldnt mind taking down the blinds and dont really want to play it post flop. IE 99 from mp on a lose table.

[Sprayed]

Example: you in the sb with 30bbs and bb has < 10bbs = insta shove with any two. The key is opponent having < 10bbs. Baring this example, open shoving more than 10bbs though isn't usually the best play.

]

I dont think insta shoving atc in the sb when bb has 10bb or less is always the best depending on how wide theyre calling, although it generally is ok against most players. In certain situations i will push more than 10x bb, such as if its a lose table and its a hand where im going to have to call a reraise anyways but wouldnt mind taking down the blinds and dont really want to play it post flop. IE 99 from mp on a lose table.

Agreed. I just think that open pushing 15bbs or greater is too much.

[dsmrolla06]

Im not saying i do it very often, but there are times i will. Its just all about my feel of the table.

[Jack Sawyer]

Its a tough question with many right answers.

Situational, I'd say.