25NL: OESD on the flop

[jimmy44]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($30.20)
MP3 ($57.90)
CO ($9.40)
Button ($22.90)
SB ($35.30)
BB ($12.30)
Hero ($25)
UTG+1 ($25.45)
MP1 ($21.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T, J.
Hero checks, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) J, 9, Q (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $4.5, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $4.50, Button calls $4.50, SB folds, BB calls $3.

Turn: ($19.50) 2 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $18, Button folds, BB folds, Hero folds

BB was 28/17/1.33
MP3 was 50/11/1
Button was 28/0/0

Do you play the same and raise the flop? Or do you just call?

[zook]

Don't post UTG.

I probably just call this flop. Or fold. Your hand isn't very good and this is board that's going to get a lot of action, even if you raise. And if you make your str8 it still won't be the nuts.

[jimmy44]

Actually, I forgot to mention that is was the first hand, so I posted UTG. Are you saying that I should not have posted UTG and waiting for BB?
You are right, that if I made the straight it would probably not be the nuts as the flush would also be a possibility.

[mixchange]

this isn't that good of a hand because
1) when the straight hits, it will be obvious and may not be the nuts
2) you don't have as many outs because someone may be chasing the flush

really, you are looking for an 8 or another J, a bad reason to be in a pot.

Just wait for the blind to post. In the long run this saves a lot of money if you tend to do this frequently. The only way I'm posting before the blind comes around is if someone is stacking with air for some freebies.

[zook]

Actually, I forgot to mention that is was the first hand, so I posted UTG. Are you saying that I should not have posted UTG and waiting for BB?

YES, that's what I'm saying. Think about it... you're paying a big blind for one hand. Normally, you pay 1.5 big blinds for 9 hands. You really screw yourself by posting out of the blinds. Posting in the CO in full-ring is ok, because you're paying 1 big blind for 6 hands which is the same as what you normally pay.

[Fnord]

Don't post UTG.

Flop is probably a fold, as played I would vommit and fold the turn.

[Penfold]

you played this just fine. you flopped huge, if this was a raised pot you should be playing it for stacks. dont listen to these people who say fold the flop. we have ~50% equity vs top pair and we have a ton of fold equity on this board, even against two pairs. this draw becomes profitable when we gain fold equity by raising. the turn is a clear fold though after he pots it with all of those callers. and dont post oop.

[Fnord]

we have ~50% equity vs top pair

...and just about everything else smokes us and our absolute and relative position just sucks.

Nothing pot and we're on the fast track to a second best or split hand multi-way. If ever there was a place to make a weak fold.

[Penfold]

why are you assuming that because one player bets in an unraised pot they have 2pr+?

[Fnord]

why are you assuming that because one player bets in an unraised pot they have 2pr+?

I'm putting him on Tx, Qx, flush draw and better. Barring a read, most people don't bet worse hands than that into the field. Also I am concerned about the 4 players behind us.

I'm not a big fan of isolating BB's range, but it's probably the next best play. Particularly given that 25NL players are going to call with lots of hands we'd rather see fold in this spot.

[Penfold]

ok fair enough.
in general the aggressive play is usually the best, although it may be marginal here. aggression here will help build a good image, maybe it doesnt matter at this level though idk.
looking over this hand again, folding to one bet is just bad here imo.
but you make good points and i get what youre saying.

[bigspenda73]

why are you assuming that because one player bets in an unraised pot they have 2pr+?

There is a huge difference between betting in a HU pot and leading into the field especially on the turn.