1st hand of $6.50 Turbo - JJ

[Random_Hero]

1st hand JJ. Obviously no reads.

Pre flop is standard I guess.
Flop - Cont bet is ok??
Turn - 2nd King scares me. he bets 275 into a 490 pot giving us just under 3/1 odds to call. Can we call this? Sharkscoped villain before game and he's a looooser.

when he called on the flop I thought maybe a FD, possibly K-J, K-Q. Is this an obvious fold on the Turn?

PokerStars Game #10575143715: Tournament #53572391, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/06/23 - 04:37:14 (ET)
Table '53572391 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: whitespur (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: seanmonster (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: IFoldPktOnes (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: Bepo! (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: Quinten (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: RandomHero83 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: MyBowsJangle (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: njv81 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: felixlucky (1500 in chips)
seanmonster: posts small blind 10
IFoldPktOnes: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RandomHero83 [Jh Js]
Bepo!: calls 20
Quinten: folds
RandomHero83: raises 80 to 100
MyBowsJangle: folds
njv81: folds
felixlucky: calls 100
whitespur: folds
seanmonster: folds
IFoldPktOnes: folds
Bepo!: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kd 3h 4h]
RandomHero83: bets 180
felixlucky: calls 180
*** TURN *** [Kd 3h 4h] [Kc]
RandomHero83: checks
felixlucky: bets 275
RandomHero83: ????

[bjsaust]

First comment, the 2nd K is no more of a worry than the first. In fact its the 2nd best card that can hit (after another J). If he has trip Ks on the turn, you were behind a pair of Ks on the flop. In reality, nothings changed (you even still have your two outs since a J gives you a fullhouse now). It just looks scarier than one K.

As it is though, donk or not, your bet on the flop is to find out where you are, the call says your behind. The bet behind your check just means, yes, you really are behind. He could be full of crap, he could have something like a flush draw or even a whacky straight draw of some kind, but this should be an easy fold even to a donk.

[Random_Hero]

First comment, the 2nd K is no more of a worry than the first. In fact its the 2nd best card that can hit (after another J). If he has trip Ks on the turn, you were behind a pair of Ks on the flop. In reality, nothings changed (you even still have your two outs since a J gives you a fullhouse now). It just looks scarier than one K.

Good point I never actually thought of it like that.

God Im a Donk!! lol

[ZwiFT]

JJ first hand? Limp in, evnt call raise if its 1 / 10-15 of your stack. If you dont flop J or there is overcards, get out

[Random_Hero]

I think Jacks are good for a raise in any position. I hate limping Jacks especially from EP. I want to push out marginal hands and the only way to do that is to raise.

[ZwiFT]

Thats good for late SnG, early SnG they are not good, treat them as any other pair below ten is my advice

[Random_Hero]

When you say "late" what do you mean? what blind levels?

It obviously depends on the size of your stack I guess. <10 BB is an easy shove.

I still like a raise here this early

[ZwiFT]

Yeah, i mean later in the SnG. JJ gets alot more value .

Just a tip early on is to play JJ and TT just like any other lowpairs, limp and try hitting the set. You will net gain alot more from that I find it to risky to play em big early on in a SnG.

[ZwiFT]

If you are gonna raise, do it in late position

[bjsaust]

I like raising JJ from anywhere. TT is situational (I'm still learning where and when). Assuming Random hero folded, I play this hand exactly the same, right down to bet sizing.

[Random_Hero]

If you are gonna raise, do it in late position

Not with JJ. J-J is a very strong hand worth raising from ANY position.

[ZwiFT]

We could discuss this all night, but JJ is not a very strong hand early in a tournament in early position Limp!

[Random_Hero]

I don't understand why you would limp and let others see a flop with marginal hand. This is the 5th best hand in Holdem after A-A, K-K, Q-Q, A-K.

I don't see how the hand is any weaker earlier in a tourney either. why would I want to play it like 10's 9's or 8's when it's a stronger hand than them?

I can see where your coming from but I raise J-J pre flop EVERY time.

[ZwiFT]

Because you want to hit a set and get payed off, and marginal hands wont beat your set that easy. You can easy see if the board is too dangerous to play your set but in most cases you will get payed off by a donkey.

Im not sure of the % of hitting a Q - K - A on flop but i guess its pritty big. Im not saying its a wrong thing to do, but i prefer limping in these situations with jacks early on

And yes its less worth early on because the blinds are so small, even if you raise a donk with 9Ks will call you Beating you. Or a Ax =)

But Cbet on flop is ok there. You represent a AK or KQ and im not sure i would have fallen for that if i were the opponement, would be better for you if a ace hit =))

Anyway after a call, quit the hand =) unless you hit a Jack on the turn hihi

[Random_Hero]

Because you want to hit a set and get payed off, and marginal hands wont beat your set that easy. You can easy see if the board is too dangerous to play your set but in most cases you will get payed off by a donkey.

My hand is probably best at the table right now. Wouldn't you advocate a raise if you think you have the best hand pre flop?

And yes its less worth early on because the blinds are so small, even if you raise a donk with 9Ks will call you Smile Beating you. Or a Ax

How do we know these hands will beat us if we haven't seen the flop yet?


should I be limping Queens aswell then?

[ZwiFT]

No, I play Queens, Kings and aces different. But i play Jacks and tens as 22-99 thats just my style and it works perfect for me.

Yes your hand is prolly the best atm, but a hand with any overcards beat you 1/3 times. listen man your style is totaly ok, i just like beeing on the safe side with tens and jacks and play them for set value=).

If you are gonna raise preflop with jacks, and if you dont hit, you do a cbet and get called your almost certain your beat. Depends on your reads and the board. Dont go much further with them. If you play them like queens you will bet burned alot. Thats my advise.

[Random_Hero]

No, I play Queens, Kings and aces different. But i play Jacks and tens as 22-99 thats just my style and it works perfect for me.

Yes your hand is prolly the best atm, but a hand with any overcards beat you 1/3 times. listen man your style is totaly ok, i just like beeing on the safe side with tens and jacks and play them for set value=).

If you are gonna raise preflop with jacks, and if you dont hit, you do a cbet and get called your almost certain your beat. Depends on your reads and the board. Dont go much further with them. If you play them like queens you will bet burned alot. Thats my advise.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree

1 more thing. You don't neccesaraly (spelling?) have to hit trips to win the pot with J-J. if flop comes all rags and you c-bet your more than likely to win the pot there and then.

[ZwiFT]

Ok, we'll agree to disagree

1 more thing. You don't neccesaraly (spelling?) have to hit trips to win the pot with J-J. if flop comes all rags and you c-bet your more than likely to win the pot there and then.

Nono ofcourse not I didnt mean that either. Ofcourse JJ can win without hitting a set But you wont win alot with preflop raise and cbet if you dont hit. But you might loose alot

[givememyleg]

I never limp jacks.

[ZwiFT]

Remember this is a turbo game and you want to conserve chips and see cheap flops. I'd never raise with jacks, early in a normal game or turbo!

[Sprayed]

I would open raise here but not as big as you did. JJ is a good hand but not as good this early in the turbo. You are making it difficult to get away from this hand by raising so much. I would make it 3xbb and then go from there. If someone reraises me preflop then I will call getting good implied odds to hit my set. If I miss then I would just fold.