Bet sizing on the turn

[cobere]

Interesting hand from a tourney I played today:

-----Hand 8-----
Heros M = 26.00
Full Tilt Poker Game #2808304269: $10 + $1 Tournament (20911646), Table 2 - 40/80 - No Limit Holdem - 23:44:16 ET - 2007/06/29
Condensed history provided by the Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.2w) from http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com
Seat 1: Mrfrancis007 (2,650)
Seat 2: Hero (3,120)
Seat 3: royalelk (4,624)
Seat 4: dvdk (2,105)
Seat 5: gates4279 (3,402)
Seat 6: deerdoe (1,326)
Seat 7: Jon_the_swan (1,900)
Seat 8: RKeely (1,050)
royalelk posts the small blind of 40
dvdk posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero

gates4279 calls 80
deerdoe calls 80
Jon_the_swan folds
RKeely calls 80
Mrfrancis007 folds
Hero calls 80
royalelk calls 40
dvdk checks
*** FLOP ***
:As:
royalelk checks
dvdk checks
gates4279 checks
deerdoe checks
RKeely checks
Hero checks
*** TURN ***
:As:
royalelk checks
dvdk checks
gates4279 bets 160
deerdoe calls 160
RKeely calls 160
Hero raises to 880
royalelk folds
dvdk folds
gates4279 calls 720
deerdoe calls 720
RKeely folds
*** RIVER ***
:As:
gates4279 checks
deerdoe bets 366, and is all in
Hero calls 366
gates4279 calls 366
*** SHOW DOWN ***
deerdoe shows

a straight, Eight high
Hero mucks
gates4279 mucks
:Ah: :Js:
deerdoe wins the pot (4,378) with a straight, Eight high

I'm pretty comfortable with checking behind on the flop with 8 outs rather than betting and possibly facing a check/raise. I suppose there is an argument for chasing out a few hands, and if I'm just called I may be able to take a free card if the turn is a blank.

When I make my rather well hidden straight on the turn and get the bet and 2 calls in front, I figured I was facing other draws (flush or straight), or at best a set. Raising is obv a must, and the size of my raise meant that one opp would be looking at calling 720 into a pot of 1840, or a little more than 2.5 to 1. I really didn't count on getting more than one caller, and it resulted in the 2nd caller facing 720 into a pot of 2560 or 3.6 to 1, pretty good odds for him considering what he was holding.

A larger bet probably would have been better, and wanted to see what y'all think. Is pushing here overkill? Mash the pot button?

[drmcboy]

this is fine, and has a 0 % chance of being posted if you had the best hand.

[bigspenda73]

this is fine, and has a 0 % chance of being posted if you had the best hand.

I don't agree just b/c Cobere is a reg and a regular tourney player, why he included the results? I have no idea.

[cobere]

Posted the results just to show that deerdoe actually had good odds to overcall (or even push) with the combination of my raise size and the 1st caller. I suppose I could have left it out until I got a few responses (shrug).

Drmcboy is right, if I would have won the hand, I wouldn't have questioned my raise size and gone back to analyze this hand. If it weren't a multi-way pot, I think my raise size would have been good. I wasn't counting on multiple callers, and I overlooked the possibility of combo draws.

I think I remember a similar hand in Phil Gordon's LBB, will try to find it.

[swiggidy]

You don't make bet sizes to chase out the best possible draw. You make your bet sizes to chase out the most likely draw.

[chardrian]

There are going to be lots of times where both you and your opponents make the right move - this is one of those cases.

In fact, no matter what you bet on the turn would've changed this hand because the guy with AJ was calling which automatically gave deerdoe odds to call.

If you should question anything about this hand it is whether or not you should have pushed the river to create a side pot.

[dstir2]

i agree w/ swiggidy. if the raise you made were any larger, it would the equivalent of a push in the eyes of your opponents. the chances of the opp. in early position limping with that particular hand is rare and the community board that followed is even more of a coincidence. you made the right play, the flush didn't hit, and you went with it. a min. raise following villian's ai had a good chance of getting a call from gates.