Reminder Hands, Common mistakes on Flushy Flops! $16 turbos

[I H8 Mondayz]

Here are 2 hands from a $16 turbo I just reviewed, I'm posting them because I see a common mistake in both hands that end up being huge mistakes in both cases. Hand #1 my opp. makes the mistake by calling a bet with inproper odds, then ignores the paired board and pays the price when they catch thier card on the river. Hand #2 is from the bubble, I probably shoud have raised preflop but elected to just see what it would bring. When it brought me a set I am the one ignoring the flush draw, I think pushing the flop was the play here. I finished 3rd, should have been an easy 1st or 2nd.... Comments or inputs? ( SORRY, couldnt convert hand #1 for some reason )

HAND #1 POKERSTARS GAME #11362115098: TOURNAMENT #57649649, $15+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL III (25/50) - 2007/08/07 - 16:05:03 (ET)
Table '57649649 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: |xBozkurtx| (770 in chips)
Seat 2: hadal (1285 in chips)
Seat 3: mleone3333 (2225 in chips)
Seat 4: LQInc (1850 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (1450 in chips)
Seat 6: VALLERIUS (1010 in chips)
Seat 7: crazyguy1984 (1740 in chips)
Seat 8: Jazzzone (1455 in chips)
Seat 9: Churchill83 (1715 in chips)
Churchill83: posts small blind 25
|xBozkurtx|: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO[6h 6d]
hadal: folds
mleone3333: calls 50
LQInc: calls 50
:HERO calls 50
2 FOLDS
Jazzzone: calls 50
Churchill83: folds
|xBozkurtx|: checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 6s Kd]
3 CHECKS
HERO: bets 200
3 FOLDS
LQInc: calls 200
*** TURN *** [4s 6s Kd] [6c]
LQInc: bets 200
:HERO calls 200
*** RIVER *** [4s 6s Kd 6c] [7s]
LQInc: bets 750
HERO: raises 250 to 1000 and is all-in
LQInc: calls 250
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO shows [6h 6d] (four of a kind, Sixes)
LQInc shows [Ts As] (a flush, Ace high)




HAND #2PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button (t4125)
SB (t2775)
Hero (t4520)
UTG (t2080)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 6.
2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t400) 4, 6, 6 (2 players)
SB bets t400, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t1200) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t1200, SB raises to t2175, Hero calls t975.

River: (t5550) T (2 players)

Final Pot: t5550
Hero has Ac 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
SB has 9s 8s (flush, ten high).

[Fnord]

Your analysis of these hands is terrible because you assume your opponents can read your hole cards.

[bjsaust]

First hand the only mistake is chasing bad odds. You're much more likely to have a K than quads or a FH on the paired board.

2nd hand had no mistakes by anyone really. You probably should have raised PF, but thats minor. Your flop float can easily be anything other than a 6, usually A high. If anything you're more likely to have a 4 than a 6. On the turn he has TP + flush draw, thats fairly good for a push on that board. You have trips, even if you know he's on a FD you're correct to call that. He only hits his flush approx 1 in 4 times.

[I H8 Mondayz]

Your analysis of these hands is terrible because you assume your opponents can read your hole cards.

Really, not sure what you mean with the assuming.

[bjsaust]

Hand 1 analysis is only valid if you assume opponent should be able to tell you have a flush beaten.

[I H8 Mondayz]

Hand 1 analysis is only valid if you assume opponent should be able to tell you have a flush beaten.

Ok, so if your on a flush draw it's right to call a bet that does'nt give you correct pot odds if you put your opp. on a lessor hand? Does this have something to do with implied odds?

[bjsaust]

No, its not correct to call without pot odds, however its a fairly common mistake. That said, if you had a set instead of quads you (you being typical person in that situation) often do pay him off justifying his call with implied odds).

then ignores the paired board and pays the price when they catch thier card on the river.

That parts wrong though. Having chased his draw, it would be wrong for him not to try to extract value from it just because the board is paired.

[Fnord]

*sigh*

In hand 1 calling pot with a nut flush draw and unpaired Ace isn't a big mistake against your range. You don't know each other (or are so occupied/terribe you're not paying attention anyway), so it's pretty much an insta-call or raise assuming each other isn't very good. On the turn he makes a weak donkbet to pick up the pot repping something like Kx looking for a clean turn card. 400 would have given his story more credibility but he wasn't totally in left field. You call and well now he's onto the river and still hasn't made a bad call. On the river with pot behind he makes a value bet but was committed to showdown when the spade hit anyway.

I would venture to guess that the original poster has some serious ego problems and doesn't try to see hands though the point of view of the other guy. Instead he just curses the poker gods for every pot they send the way of the undeserving masses.

[I H8 Mondayz]

Ok, I see, thanks for that.

[I H8 Mondayz]

I would venture to guess that the original poster has some serious ego problems and doesn't try to see hands though the point of view of the other guy. Instead he just curses the poker gods for every pot they send the way of the undeserving masses.[/quote]


UMMMMM ok, as the original poster and winner of the pot in the 1st hand I curse nothing. I do however see things differently then others, I think most people do. This post, and all the other posts and replies are evidence of that. I personaly am looking to understand everyone's to grow as a player.