Was this terrible?

[ilosemostly]

Level: 3 Blinds(50/100) - Sunday, September 02, 22:35:59 ET 2007
Table Speed #1330080 (Real Money)
Condensed history provided by the Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.4w) from http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 8: Tarltbh ( 2,050 )
Seat 3: Hero ( 1,650 )
Seat 10: jt6662 ( 1,410 )
Seat 9: ueTseppel ( 1,790 )
Seat 1: Snoeiboel ( 1,690 )
Seat 6: pitukinha ( 2,180 )
Seat 5: beat1959 ( 2,450 )
Seat 4: Mexplayer21 ( 2,540 )
Seat 2: tashax ( 2,380 )
Seat 7: sugarturtle ( 1,860 )
Preflop: Hero dealt 9 9
pitukinha folds
sugarturtle folds
Tarltbh folds
ueTseppel folds
jt6662 raises [300]
Snoeiboel folds
tashax folds
Hero is all-In [1,650]



I just thought well he probably has 2 high cards, 77+, assuming he c-bets all flops I'm gonna be in a tough spot when theres one or two over cards, So I thought I'd try take the pot down now.

[taipan168]

It is read dependent on the raiser. What reads did you have?

[ilosemostly]

It is read dependent on the raiser. What reads did you have?

He lost some chips in the first few hands, had been fairly tight since then.

[TLR]

Dont think its terrible, you can also call and lead on any low flop

[taipan168]

It is read dependent on the raiser. What reads did you have?

He lost some chips in the first few hands, had been fairly tight since then.

In that case, as TLR says, it isn't terrible since you have reasonable fold equity.

[Zee Devee]

I think a stop and go would actually be pretty good here. If there is only 1 high card tho. If the fflops is say K 84 or something, I would probably push it because he cannot call without the K.

[taipan168]

I think a stop and go would actually be pretty good here. If there is only 1 high card tho. If the fflops is say K 84 or something, I would probably push it because he cannot call without the K.

This is not a stop and go for a couple of reasons:
- Hero is not first to act on the flop
- Stop and gos work best when the blind flop shove is about a pot-sized bet. Here Hero's stack is much deeper than this.

That said, flat calling (since Hero has position) and evaluating the flop isn't such a bad option.

[Zee Devee]

Ooo, gotcha. Didn't realize Hero was button, thought it was a blind.

Why do stop n gos work best when its a pot sized bet and not an overbet (like in this case if Hero was blind)?

[taipan168]

Ooo, gotcha. Didn't realize Hero was button, thought it was a blind.

Why do stop n gos work best when its a pot sized bet and not an overbet (like in this case if Hero was blind)?

The reason for pulling a stop n go (which BTW I only do VERY rarely since they are a recipe for spewing chips against LP players) is because you believe you have little FE preflop but more FE on the flop (considering that most flops miss most hands). Therefore, the times to use it is when you have about 8-10x BB from the blinds and there is a raise in front. For example, if you have 8x BB in the BB, button raises 3x BB and you shove, then button needs to call 5x BB to see a pot of 11.5x BB (which means he will pretty much always call due to pot odds unless he's really stealing with crap).

However, if you just flat call and open shove any flop then button has to call 5x BB into a pot of 6.5x BB. If he missed the flop then he'll probably fold, and even if he flopped something like middle pair he might still let it go.

Now, if you're too shallow stacked to make around a pot-sized bet on the flop then you'll have no FE on the flop even if opp missed, and if you're too deep stacked then you've got other possible options (including shoving overe preflop since a) you'll have FE preflop and b) if you don't want to shove over preflop you're deep enough to wait for another spot.

That's the theory, anyway. In practice I find that waiting for a spot to either open shove or shove over with good cards gives better results.