400NL A-Qo

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Villain is a competent TAG. Has been quite aggressive.

I think i should have check/folded the turn, but is river an easy check/fold?

Hero: ($426.20 in chips)
Villain: ($546.60 in chips)
4 other players

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Qh As]
Hero: raises $12 to $16
Villain: calls $16
4 folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 2h 7c]
Hero: bets $28
Villain: calls $28
*** TURN *** [3h 2h 7c] [Ad]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $68
Hero: calls $68
*** RIVER *** [3h 2h 7c Ad] [Qs]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $268 (small overbet)
Hero: ?

[mixchange]

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

Question: "is river an easy check/fold?"

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

[mixchange]

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

FACT: Your fact is not a fact.

[|~|ypermegachi]

i'm confused.

bet turn. bet river. as played call.

[zook]

I bet this turn, but I don't mind a c/r either, don't like the c/c unless you know he'll bluff a blank river. As played I call the river overbet.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Okay, it is certainly possible that i just am stupid and am not thinking this through correctly. Here's what i was thinking:

Villain's range on...

the flop
8-8 - 10-10
Flush draw/4-5
occasionally a set

the turn
Flush draw
Flush draw with Ah
straight
occasionally a set

the river
missed flush
straight
set



mixchange i don't see villain having any two pair at any point in this hand. What two pair hands do you think he could have?


If the river bet wasn't an overbet i would have called.

[griffey24]

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

Question: "is river an easy check/fold?"

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

seriously? and here my first instinct was to c/r this river.. hmmm

I really don't see how we can fold here. I would have expected a set to raise this flop, and as played we let villain bluff a possible missed FD on two streets.

I guess villain could have 45, so a check call is better than a c/r, but i don't see how we can fold.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

i think bet/fold the turn is the best line, since i am not getting any more value out of mid pairs by checking anyways.


And i charge draws, and make the hand easier to play.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

you're still beating A2, A3, and A7...

[snowbird4life]

I dont see how you can fold this river. As played, i call.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

you're still beating A2, A3, and A7...

i don't think a TAG calls my UTG open with A-x without someone else having called in front of him.

Ah Qh is the only possible two pair combination that i could see villain holding here, but even then i think he might 3bet preflop.

[Miffed22001]

i think we need to know about how villain plays a pair and a set etc before we can consider how we should play the turn and river.
I think calling here is bad because our hand is so clear and hes overbetting despite our line.

[Halv]

How is our hand so clear? I get to the river like this with KK- alot against aggro villains, and sometimes with draws. I'm not folding this hand.

[Miffed22001]

How is our hand so clear? I get to the river like this with KK- alot against aggro villains, and sometimes with draws. I'm not folding this hand.

im beginning to reconsider now you mention it.
Why did we not bet turn fwiw. surely we have to follow through here to be able to fire enough two barrels?

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

i still think my hand is essentially a bluff catcher. If anyone can give a well reasoned explanation for how villain could be holding A-2/A-3/A-7/A-Q, i will certainly stand corrected. I will concede that Ah-Qh is a possibility, but even then i think villain would tend to 3bet preflop.

i agree with everyone that says i should have bet the turn. This will be my default play in the future, as it makes the hand much easier to play and i charge draws etc.

What do you guys think an overbet generally means, seriously? When i see an overbet, i generally assume that it's the nuts or a near nut hand. Is this less often the case as you move up in limits?

[Genitruc]

i haven't folded this in probably a year or so

as played i d be fistpumping as I check raised the river AI

[Genitruc]

also he could be bluffing!

[Renton]

consider betting turn at least with some frequency

as played i like the c/c c/c line on turn and river. You obviously must call the river. You have an unlikely big hand vs an aggressive player when most of the draws bricked, in a spot where he could very easily have turned a flopped overpair into a bluff.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Okay, since its literally unanimous that i should be calling this river bet, i assume no one is too concerned about the overbet by this opponent.

I guess checking the turn to induce a bluff is okay against an aggressive opponent, but in general i think bet/folding the turn is best. Particulary because, like miffed said, i would probably fire the turn with a hand like Q-J.

By check/raising the turn, i think we allow this aggressive villain to let go of a drawing hand so i think i like check/calling the turn and check/calling a non heart river.

I learned a ton from everyones comments in this thread, which is worth (in the long run) the embarrassment in admitting that i actually folded.

[sauce123]

y isnt A3 A2 A7 a big part of his range?

[Halv]

I don't see tags calling A-rag UTG+1 very often at all.

[Dislexsik]

Why would he want to overbet this river?Seems more like a busted draw.I would have betted the turn, and c/c river.I think betting the turn would make play this river more easy.

[sauce123]

this hand was also played pretty goofy by both parties.

its not a terrible fold for sure, but i think calling is better