play this KK hand for me after the flop

[b-rabbit]

so this is the second hand of a micro 1-table sng. check out the preflop and flop action.

Dealt to br614 [Kd Kc]
xXRomarioXx: folds
truc1976: calls 20
SSN672: folds
dani hunky: folds
br614: raises 60 to 80
BBOY3110: folds
eliane79: calls 80
Dogan2011: folds
PokerDon77: calls 70
cedlabal: calls 60
truc1976: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [6d 3c 3h]
PokerDon77: checks
cedlabal: checks
truc1976: checks
br614: bets 320
eliane79: folds
PokerDon77: folds
cedlabal: raises 320 to 640
truc1976: folds
br614:

[drmcboy]

call and call/shove turn

post the stack sizes

[b-rabbit]

it was the second hand of the sng, first hand got folded around. so all stack sizes are about 1500

[drmcboy]

I might check an Ace on turn, not because I think he has one but because it may scare him, other wise still shove if he checks to you

[Geanosssss]

push.

[taipan168]

I'd just shove over on the flop, expect to be called and be ahead.

BTW you might want to raise a bit more preflop, I make it 100-120 to go.

[TLR]

Shove over, you are ahead of most of his range

[mike4066]

I'd just shove over on the flop, expect to be called and be ahead.

BTW you might want to raise a bit more preflop, I make it 100-120 to go.

Well I think 4x is fine.

3-6x preflop raises first level are a matter of opinion and I think that its too early to tell if you need to raise alot or 3x.

But in a $1 sng your playing against some gambling fools so 5-6x is a good bet too.

Why did i even post this?

[Geanosssss]

Why did i even post this?

gooooood question

[AlexMorris]

You could easily be beat by a hand like Q3, but he'll make this play with any 6, any pocket pair, or 45. At the micro stakes, don't rule out Ax or KQ getting uppity. I just shove over and don't care if he calls or folds, both are wonderful outcomes.

[drmcboy]

unless he has 54, him folding is a disaster, which no one in this thread seems to get.

[bigspenda73]

I just shove over and don't care if he calls or folds, both are wonderful outcomes.

Not exactly the best thought process bub. We HATE it if he folds and frankly Im not too thrilled if he calls.

[AlexMorris]

Not exactly the best thought process bub. We HATE it if he folds and frankly Im not too thrilled if he calls.

Then what do we want to have happen? If he calls, he probably has 2 outs, 5 outs, or has us dead to 2 outs (he has A6, 6x, or any 3, respectively), which makes him calling a great thing. If he folds, he probably was drawing very slim (KQ or A9 or something), and he won't be putting any more chips in the pot, anyway. So we don't mind him folding and us gaining over 600 chips for our stack, that's fantastic. Obviously, him calling is best, but you're in a no-lose situation, regardless of his action.

My goal here is to force him to put his chips in right now. He might get scared if he has 99 and we flat call and then a J hits, or something like that. Anyway, I stand by shoving, and whatever he does is fine, since it's almost certainly going to get you max value for your hand.

[badgers]

unless he has 54, him folding is a disaster, which no one in this thread seems to get.

I can't see him folding here though, opp has invested so much of his stack and there's loads of dead money in the pot. Shoving makes it easier if a 6 or A comes on the turn, and I can't see that it will lose much value since opp almost never folds. There are a lot of cards on the turn that will scare opps range imo.

Post-flop discussion, yay!

[bjsaust]

We're almost certainly ahead here. The decision isnt p/f, its how do we extract the most value.

We like chips remember. We want them!

[drmcboy]

Not exactly the best thought process bub. We HATE it if he folds and frankly Im not too thrilled if he calls.

Then what do we want to have happen?

brick turn, and him to shove his lower PP.

He might get scared if he has 99 and we flat call and then a J hits, or something like that.

Because he'll put us on Jx when we bet/call the flop?

Shoving makes it easier if a 6 or A comes on the turn

so he has 7 outs to MAYBE outdraw us or get away, although he almost never folds a PP if it's a 6 rather than an A. HE can have a six but we almost never do.




Think of this a little outside the box. What if we knew he had a pocket pair pre flop - would you move in or make a smaller raise?

[AlexMorris]

What if we knew he had a pocket pair pre flop - would you move in or make a smaller raise?

Move in. This is an unbelievably friendly flop for a pocket pair, so he'd be delighted to call. If an A or K comes, he might get scared, and at the micro limits any over card could scare him. Of course, at higher limits we have to consider that he's a thinking player and could get away from 22-99 (other than 33 and 66, of course) if we shove.

drmcboy, I'm under the impression that he could be scared by a J on the turn because he might think we're sticking around with AJ (really, AT+). This comes strictly from the OP mentioning this is micro-limit, which has crazy loose players. He might even think any two broadway cards could call this flop raise, and at this limit he might not be wrong about a lot of the players.

[drmcboy]

Get more outside the box. Pre flop we know he has a PP. Do you move in or make a normal raise? We have not seen the flop

[AlexMorris]

Get more outside the box. Pre flop we know he has a PP. Do you move in or make a normal raise? We have not seen the flop

Not sure what you're driving at, since we don't get a chance to act after him pre-flop. Given the knowledge that he has a pocket pair pre-flop, we play the hand the same way pre-flop. If he raised us pre-flop, then we can raise or flat call, depending on how aggressive we feel he'll be if he misses post-flop, and whether or not we think he'll call AI if we shove. Still not sure what you're getting at, though...

Anyway, I'm probably done with this thread. Seems like we're getting dangerously close to an online argument, and then we both lose.

[bigspenda73]

see what happens when I venture into the SNG forums, flkjfajlkfsdakj I knew better....

[badgers]

Tbh I don't think he's folding very often either way. I guess if we call he is completely pot-commited so that is probs better.

If I was multi-tabling I would shove without thinking and be confident that the amount of value that I had lost would be negligable.

[b-rabbit]

not trying to bump this thread...i just got back to reading everyones replies. i'm glad that everyone excluded the possibility of folding, as did I, and many people liked the shove option here...the hand played out like this:

br614: raises 780 to 1420 and is all-in
cedlabal: calls 780 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6d 3c 3h] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [6d 3c 3h 9d] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cedlabal: shows [5s 3s] (three of a kind, Threes)
br614: shows [Kd Kc] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
cedlabal collected 3240 from pot

I didn't post this because it was a beat. I just doubted my thought processes after the flop and I was curious what other people thought. Who saw 53s coming??