QQ 150bb

[benny999]

button is 28/18, seems straightforward from seeing a couple big pots (no 3bet pots though). also he INSTA called pre.
he prob sees me as tag around 25/17, maybe with a tight reraising range.
bet sizing and line check?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($342.50)
MP ($398.40)
CO ($598.90)
Button ($572.50)
SB ($538.40)
Hero ($571.30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q.
3 folds, Button raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $58, Button calls $44.

Flop: ($118) 6, 4, J (2 players)
Hero bets $75, Button raises to $175, Hero calls $100.

Turn: ($468) T (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $339.5 (All-In), Hero folds.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

i would check/call the flop. i hate getting raised in a spot like this (where i don't want to felt/fold on the flop).

3bet pre is pretty big.

[benny999]

if u check, what would you do facing large bets on flop and turn?
and does the 3bet size make sense with deepish stacks?

[sauce123]

i would check/call the flop. i hate getting raised in a spot like this (where i don't want to felt/fold on the flop).

3bet pre is pretty big.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

if u check, what would you do facing large bets on flop and turn?
and does the 3bet size make sense with deepish stacks?

i check/call a flop bet.

If the turn card is a King/Ace/Jack i check/fold.

If the turn card is something else i would want to know more about my opponents double barreling tendencies in reraised pots before i would want to get it all in. I'd alternate between check/folding and check/calling depending on the flow of the session, and fold to a river bet unless i spike that Queen!


I would 3bet to $48-50 preflop. I really don't know that much about deepstacked play so i don't understand the merits to 3betting larger preflop here except that you are likely ahead of your opponents calling range.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

3-bet size pre is fine f you haven't been threebetting very light, but i'd reccomend starting to threebet lighter when your a little deep like this.

Vi, let me explain to you why you should 3-bet larger when you're deeper if you're using the same 3-betting range as 100BB's deep:

- Lets say you're a 8/5 TAGG. You observe that everyone else is raising 3x pre so you decide to also. But because your range is so tight when you raise, everyone at the table has implied odds to call with a wide range of hands because you're going to have real hands at a much higher frequency when you raise preflop.

- It's the same thing with 3-bet pots. If you're range is pretty tight, like TT+, AQ-AK, then a lot of hands are going to have implied odds to call your 3-bet. This is one reason why you should widen your 3-betting range when you are deeper, because it takes away the implied odds of a hand like 45s or 44.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

3-bet size pre is fine f you haven't been threebetting very light, but i'd reccomend starting to threebet lighter when your a little deep like this.

Vi, let me explain to you why you should 3-bet larger when you're deeper if you're using the same 3-betting range as 100BB's deep:

- Lets say you're a 8/5 TAGG. You observe that everyone else is raising 3x pre so you decide to also. But because your range is so tight when you raise, everyone at the table has implied odds to call with a wide range of hands because you're going to have real hands at a much higher frequency when you raise preflop.

- It's the same thing with 3-bet pots. If you're range is pretty tight, like TT+, AQ-AK, then a lot of hands are going to have implied odds to call your 3-bet. This is one reason why you should widen your 3-betting range when you are deeper, because it takes away the implied odds of a hand like 45s or 44.

this is a useful post for me, thx for taking the time to explain it massimo.

Hypothetically, if the stacks were 300BB+ deep...

Would you 3bet anything you would open with a 100BB stack?

[benny999]

i think the optimal strategy would be to alternate between 3 betting a ton and calling more. i need to get better at playing 3 bet pots oop and adjusting though.

but lately i've been more weak/passive because of a huge downswing...was wondering if this hand was an example of that, but nobody's said "ez call" or anything about the turn so i guess it's real close.

[Jack Sawyer]

Am I the only one who considers shoving flop is better than calling to see turn? Basically, the only hand I'm afraid of here is JJ

AJ thinks u r on AK/ AQ here

[benny999]

dude called so fast pre flop i think any set-mining pair is possible, AJs too.
i figured his flop range was 77ish/AJ/AK bluffing/protecting, or a set and he'd give up if i call the flop (?).
i dunno what makes the most sense though, pushing makes some for sure.

[Genitruc]

him giving up after you call the flop is just so damned read-dependant

i think it s best to call the flop to prevent him from shoving turn only if you have a read that he s capable of shutting down

lots of ppl will put you on a mid-strength hand/monster here after you call the flop and not ever be able to shut down with their bluffs after you check the turn so I think it takes a bigger read to fold than it does to call

also, do you play AA/KK any differently here?

[bigspenda73]

Am I the only one who considers shoving flop is better than calling to see turn? Basically, the only hand I'm afraid of here is JJ

AJ thinks u r on AK/ AQ here

AJ wouldn't raise the flop if you had AK/AQ here Chopper, we're at a 400nl here. I'm assuming he understands raising the flop with AJ is turning his hand into a total bluff against our range.

If he's raising the flop he has JJ/KK/AA or air IMO.

[Miffed22001]

3-bet size pre is fine f you haven't been threebetting very light, but i'd reccomend starting to threebet lighter when your a little deep like this.

Vi, let me explain to you why you should 3-bet larger when you're deeper if you're using the same 3-betting range as 100BB's deep:

- Lets say you're a 8/5 TAGG. You observe that everyone else is raising 3x pre so you decide to also. But because your range is so tight when you raise, everyone at the table has implied odds to call with a wide range of hands because you're going to have real hands at a much higher frequency when you raise preflop.

- It's the same thing with 3-bet pots. If you're range is pretty tight, like TT+, AQ-AK, then a lot of hands are going to have implied odds to call your 3-bet. This is one reason why you should widen your 3-betting range when you are deeper, because it takes away the implied odds of a hand like 45s or 44.

is there an argument for just calling pre here then?

[Ravageur]

These hands tilt me even if i call and win lol.

I think I like a 3-bet to 48-52 instead of 58. I c-bet this flop almost always (are we checking to induce a bluff or hoping to check it down?). I can't really see that uber passive line being great unless you do it often with different types of hands. But I get the feeeling that we usually do this with hands JUST like these - decent made hands, making it easier for villain to play well.

In this situation though i think I call given how we've played it and your image. Smells like a move to me. BUt alas we'll never know.

These are such 'downswingy' type hands though that makes you feel 100% lost and horrible at poker. I have been there and it does get easier!

[benny999]

helpful stuff everybody, thx. i've thought too much about this hand...

i decided i should call for reasons genitruc wrote, and some minor reads (haven't seen him on UB and kinda funky stats so he may be playing more for fun, and he might've been tilting from a combo draw he got all in with and missed a lil bit ago). plus AK/AQ keeps bluffing the turn.

also, like ravageur wrote, i like the cbet because i actually have a hand in a 3bet pot and ppl call or make a ridiculous pushes, but this small raise-push seemed more like a set to me at the time.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

3-bet size pre is fine f you haven't been threebetting very light, but i'd reccomend starting to threebet lighter when your a little deep like this.

Vi, let me explain to you why you should 3-bet larger when you're deeper if you're using the same 3-betting range as 100BB's deep:

- Lets say you're a 8/5 TAGG. You observe that everyone else is raising 3x pre so you decide to also. But because your range is so tight when you raise, everyone at the table has implied odds to call with a wide range of hands because you're going to have real hands at a much higher frequency when you raise preflop.

- It's the same thing with 3-bet pots. If you're range is pretty tight, like TT+, AQ-AK, then a lot of hands are going to have implied odds to call your 3-bet. This is one reason why you should widen your 3-betting range when you are deeper, because it takes away the implied odds of a hand like 45s or 44.

is there an argument for just calling pre here then?

Yeah... but i'd still reraise it against a normal TAGG player.