BB special ass (arse) end straight on turn ($27)

[taipan168]

It's early, but both opps seem to be loose calling station type players. How is this line? Should I have bet more on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t2010)
UTG+1 (t1490)
MP1 (t1010)
MP2 (t1410)
MP3 (t1470)
CO (t1700)
Button (t1270)
Hero (t1660)
BB (t1480)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, 7.
2 folds, MP1 calls t20, MP2 calls t20, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t140) 8, T, 9 (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets t80, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t80, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls t80, BB calls t80.

Turn: (t460) J (4 players)
Hero bets t200, BB calls t200, MP1 folds, MP3 calls t200.

River: (t1060) 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks.

[TLR]

I would probably check turn

[drmcboy]

lead/CR the flop both much better than leading the turn.

[Geanosssss]

lead/CR the flop both much better than leading the turn.

explain

[Deanglow]

Fold flop. You're likely sharing and are OOP for the rest of hand. You're draw is horrible and if you hit you are often not good anyway.

[drmcboy]

lead/CR the flop both much better than leading the turn.

explain

Betting the flop is good becuase:

If you are beat now, you will almost always get raised on this board and you can get away. Even QJ should raise this board.

we don't want the pot to check around - if someone has a hand like K8 or Q9 they may fold to a bet but catch something on the turn.

Because of these things I also think check/folding is much better than calling on the flop. I prefer bet/fold but check/fold is much better than check/call and probably better than check/raise

Check raising is interesting because:

Anyone with a hand that has us beat like JT or QT or even 89 has a hard time calling or moving in. If no one has a really big hand, you may fold out the one pair hands that beat you and end up just in against the draw. And every now and again they all fold.

The bad news is we probably aren't a big favorite against a flush draw. But, there is a lot of dead money in there.
But, he may be free rolling.
And, we may be drawing dead.

So probably just bet/fold.

Leading the turn is bad because:

It makes the pot bigger and we do not have a big pot hand.

You would like to charge a flush draw, but with 4 people in on the turn you can't really price him out since he has to assume he'll get paid off on river.

And again, we may be drawing dead.

[taipan168]

Thanks for your analysis DrMcBoy, very helpful as usual. I think I understand most of what you're saying, but a couple of questions to clarify:

1. If we lead the flop for say 100, what happens if we get 2 callers? Is our move then to check the turn when our straight comes?

2. How would the hand play differently if we had JT rather than T7?

3. Does it make a difference that we have TPNK to go with our (ass end) straight draw compared to just a naked 7?

[drmcboy]

1) Yes, with two callers your straight sucks.

2) With JT on the flop I would try for a check raise. I think bet/shove would be better but you say they are stations so they will probably just call if you lead out.

3) You're playing the hand because you have TP. We basically have a one card gut shot straight draw (which won't even be CLOSE to the nuts) with a flush draw on board, that's about as bad as a draw gets. I'm ignoring the J 'outs' because I think mostly they cost you money.

[Geanosssss]

3) You're playing the hand because you have TP. We basically have a one card gut shot straight draw (which won't even be CLOSE to the nuts) with a flush draw on board, that's about as bad as a draw gets. I'm ignoring the J 'outs' because I think mostly they cost you money.

So why are you so keen to get money in on the flop?

[drmcboy]

I didn't say I was 'keen', I said if you're going to bet, bet or CR the flop, not the turn. I also said that it's close between bet/fold and check/fold. I lean to bet because sometimes you win the pot now or get things heads up where the nature of the hand will change.

[Fnord]

I like a flop fold.

[Da GOAT]

I like a flop fold.

BINGO, i was hoping someone mentioned this. TP is obv NO good on flop, are we assuming we have 8 clean outs, hell no we dont!!!!! easy fold on flop!!