$25NL 3betting with TT

[archangel95]

Was I wrong to assume I was 50% against villains range?
I'm trying to utilize Renton's chat log post into my game especially where he talked about 3 bettting with position against someone you think your hand is 50/50 against. So from villains stats what do you think?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Profiles and Stacks:
UTG Haens28 ($27.70) 21.5/6.5/1.0 (107)
UTG+1 Minimi2000 ($23.75) 25.0/0.0/0.0 (4)
MP aherland ($25.10) 37.2/22.1/2.7 (113)
CO Hero ($24.95) 11.8/7.9/3.5 (152)
BTN Eschke ($9.30) 30.3/0.7/0.8 (152)
SB Himan33 ($7.55) 7.7/1.9/0.0 (52)
BB sobraogirl ($24.65) 7.0/0.0/0.0 (43)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 7 players) Hero is CO
Haens28 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 3 folds, Haens28 raises to $12.25, Hero folds

Final Pot: ($7.35)

Haens28 wins $7 ( won +$3.50 )
Hero lost -$3.50


I felt like it was a pretty standard fold. I'm representing quite a bit of strength by 3betting him and he didn't care. SO AA,KK, AK would be my guess at his range.

[NLHE lahooozaher]

If he's positionally aware this is terrible. If he isn't it's meh. I also seriously doubt Renton 3 bets an UTG raise w/TT even though it's only 7 handed.

[Renton]

yeah just call

[archangel95]

yeah just call

This is what I am trying to implement

renton: there are 3 3betting mindset you should have
renton: 1. Never 3bet
somedude: lol
renton: 2. 3bet AK QQ+
renton: 3. 3bet every hand that beats their range
renton: 1 applies to people who you feel that coldcalling AA is plus-er ev vs than 3betting AA
renton: e.g. a tighter raisor utg
renton: 2 applies to your unknown who raises from mid-late position, or a tight player who raises from mid to late position
renton: 3 applies to laggs and good taggs
renton: does this make sense?
somedude: yeah
somedude: means i need a faster PC.
somedude: PAhud is dying here
renton: , and theres a 4. that only applies to good tags, which is, 3bet every ahnd that beats their range, PLUS 3bet a bunch of random suited connectors and small pairs and pwn them until they fourbet A2o out of frustation

Here's what I think his range is UTG

90,752,112 games 0.005 secs 18,150,422,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.866% 43.76% 01.11% 39708900 1007822.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.134% 54.02% 01.11% 49027568 1007822.00 { 88+, AKs, AKo }


I think the problem with 3betting his range is that most of it is going to push over the top of my 3bet, maybe not 88-QQ but the rest is coming over the top. I think I learned something from this. Anyway, this was my first attempt.

[NLHE lahooozaher]

Good stuff Mike. I learned from your post to. After making my reply I tinkered around with certain hands and matched them up against certain ranges in pokerstove to get a good idea instead of guestimating as well as reread Rentons post on 2p2.

[Renton]

yeah notice that i said that 3 only applies to aggressive players. This guy is a nit.

[martindcx1e]

Here's what I think his range is UTG

90,752,112 games 0.005 secs 18,150,422,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.866% 43.76% 01.11% 39708900 1007822.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.134% 54.02% 01.11% 49027568 1007822.00 { 88+, AKs, AKo }

a nit's range is waaay tighter than this UTG.

[archangel95]

Here's what I think his range is UTG

90,752,112 games 0.005 secs 18,150,422,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.866% 43.76% 01.11% 39708900 1007822.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.134% 54.02% 01.11% 49027568 1007822.00 { 88+, AKs, AKo }

a nit's range is waaay tighter than this UTG.

I think this guys stats were higher than this. That weaktight converter only takes the hands that you played at that table with him, but I think I had like 1000 hands on this guy and his PFR was closer to 10-11

[archangel95]

Here's what I think his range is UTG

90,752,112 games 0.005 secs 18,150,422,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.866% 43.76% 01.11% 39708900 1007822.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.134% 54.02% 01.11% 49027568 1007822.00 { 88+, AKs, AKo }

a nit's range is waaay tighter than this UTG.

Do you think Nit's are that positionally aware? Seems to me they play the same hands in all positions, with no regard to the button.

[martindcx1e]

Do you think Nit's are that positionally aware? Seems to me they play the same hands in all positions, with no regard to the button.

if there stats are like your OP says than it's pretty much way tighter than that range in any position.

[archangel95]

Do you think Nit's are that positionally aware? Seems to me they play the same hands in all positions, with no regard to the button.

if there stats are like your OP says than it's pretty much way tighter than that range in any position.

No.

pp = .45% 88-AA = (7 pp's)*.45% = 3.15%
AKs + AKo = 1.2%

4.35%

or TT-AA (5 pp's) * .45% = 2.25%

AKs + AKo + AQs +AQo = 2.4%

for 4.65%

His range would be wider than my estimate just about no matter how you re-arrange them.

[archangel95]

I'm not saying UTG. I'm just replying to your statement that it would be tighter from any position.

[martindcx1e]

oh ya i'm wrong. sorry. i do think that nits can definitely be positionally aware though.

[archangel95]

Definitely don't be sorry, that was awesome homework.

I learned from proving my point.

Yeah, they probably are positionally aware, although I don't really think they have to be because most of their range plays so well from any seat.