PCA "Step Tournaments"

[Reidak]

I wanted to know about these. I just entered a step 2 tourney.

My question is, at the 4th and 5th levels, it could be assumed that there will be a couple really bad players who luckboxed their way up through the first few steps. Knowing this, is it safe to say that play is possibly quite soft at these levels?

Going deeper, 5th, 4th and 3rd, and 1st and second all pay out differently. It seems like 3rd and 4th would be ideal targets, as you get a re-entry into the tournament. So being super aggro, you give yourself a shot at coming second or first, which gets you to the next step.

So, I think these SNG tourneys are super profitable, as 1) the structure can be manipulated, and 2) there will be a percentage of really poor players, who had made it heads up a few times in steps 2, 3 and 4. (im using 5 as a benchmark, as 6 is the one that gives away seats to the PCA)

[Reidak]

Ill Assume step 1 is a waste of time, or -ev, due to the fact we can just buy into step 2.

Step 2 - Cost $27, 9 entrants
Top 2 go to step 3, 3rd and 4th retry step 2, 5th go to step 1

Step 3
Top 2 go to step 4, 3rd, 4th, and 5th retry

Step 4
Top 2 go to step 5, 3rd repeat step 4, 4th and 5th go to step 3, 6th go back to step 2

Step 5
top 2 go to step 6, 3rd and 4th retry, 5th and 6th go to step 4

Step 6 (Profit)

Now what im wondering here is how often are we making to to step 6 on a $27 investment? That is, going from step 3 to 4 to 5 to 6, making it heads up 4 times. Even if we dont make it heads up 4 times, we can come 3rd or 4th in most instances and just retry for free.

Now step 6..

There are two options, A being 18 players, top 3 get PCA seats for 18K, nothing else paid. B, being 9 players, first place gets a PCA seat, and a grand, 2nd and 3rd get 1500 cash money, 4th and 5th get a grand, and 6th gets paid $500

From an initial investment of 27.

Anyone wanna run the numbers?

NOTE: im playing a 27 right now.. play is really passive tight

[Reidak]

Ill Assume step 1 is a waste of time, or -ev, due to the fact we can just buy into step 2.

Step 2 - Cost $27, 9 entrants
Top 2 go to step 3, 3rd and 4th retry step 2, 5th go to step 1

Step 3
Top 2 go to step 4, 3rd, 4th, and 5th retry

Step 4
Top 2 go to step 5, 3rd repeat step 4, 4th and 5th go to step 3, 6th go back to step 2

Step 5
top 2 go to step 6, 3rd and 4th retry, 5th and 6th go to step 4

Step 6 (Profit)

Now what im wondering here is how often are we making to to step 6 on a $27 investment? That is, going from step 3 to 4 to 5 to 6, making it heads up 4 times. Even if we dont make it heads up 4 times, we can come 3rd or 4th in most instances and just retry for free.

Now step 6..

There are two options, A being 18 players, top 3 get PCA seats for 18K, nothing else paid. B, being 9 players, first place gets a PCA seat, and a grand, 2nd and 3rd get 1500 cash money, 4th and 5th get a grand, and 6th gets paid $500

From an initial investment of 27.

Anyone wanna run the numbers?

NOTE: im playing a 27 right now.. play is really passive tight

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Edit:

What i want to discuss: The Two bubbles.

In these tournaments, there are effectively two bubbles. The first being a re-entry ticket (basically repeat the step), and the second being first or second. Lets not consider step 6 (the payoff step), as that plays different, and im not too concerned with it until i make it there.

From what I have seen, once a couple people are KO'ed, play really tigtens up. People with double starting stacks will really start to pull away, and a few really short stacks emerge to try to outlast eachother.

[b-rabbit]

ok. i'm on it. see you in atlantis

[metalface]

From my experience, steps 4,5 and 6 are tough. You get 1 or 2 bad players who get eliminated early. The other players are generally TAGG but I've only played against 1 tough thinking player. If you're a good player then these should be very profitable.

I'm playing a step 5 after work so wish me luck.

[Reidak]

Alright, so far ive done three step twos, lost once to a bad beat, came 5th, and got a step 4 ticket. In the step 3 my KK lost to QQ and JJ, and i busted out of any tickets

Metal, best of luck.

[metalface]

Oh well I fucked it up by playing AK like it's the holy grail

[bode]

the good high stakes sng players are just registering for step 5's and pwning them from what i can tell.

[mcatdog]

My question is, at the 4th and 5th levels, it could be assumed that there will be a couple really bad players who luckboxed their way up through the first few steps.

Yes, and you would be one of them, compared to the good high stakes players who are beating the crap out of these. You should stick 100NL and MTT's because $/hr sucks at the steps unless you're really good.

[Trikflow77]

i have played 4 step fives now and the play is very good. I would steer clear of these as a way to make money.

[Reidak]

Well lets assume step 2 and 3 can be cleared with about 4 or so buy ins at level two, so a step 4 ticket can be achieved with about $100 invested. At step 4, we start running into pros.

The pros know each other, and they know who are the less skilled players. So i assume they would pick on the less skilled. They know the format forces players who aren't good into very tight, passive play. Hoping for to get to at least 3rd or 4th for the retry ticket, then pray to get HU.

I think this can be manipulated. I think playing back, very agressively at certain times to take down bigger sized pots will work well, because the better players will think we have a real hand, and are capable/willing to risk our lives early on. And as the blinds get larger, to a point when we assume its only 5 or 4 or 3 handed perhaps, just get your money in preflop. We know they have an edge if they get to see flops, build pots. exploit us.

So thats step 4 and 5 play. Getting to step 4 carries an initial ivestment of $100 (rounded for easy numbers).

Also, steps 4 and 5 are very generous in giving re-entry tickets, meaning even if we do lose a level, we don't lose our full investment from lower levels.

[mcatdog]

for sure you want to play back and be aggressive but if you think it's going to be that easy to exploit people at a step 5 then you are in for a rude awakening

[metalface]

Step 5 ain't that tough if you play tight early. When it gets to 7 handed play, open up and play very aggressively. I've played 2 of these and the bubble gives fearless players the best opportunity to increase their chip stacks by stealing.
People just don't play back on the bubble because they know just how quickly things can turn around.

Come on FTR, let's take a few of these down. I don't have a decent BR so I'll start at step 1 again but I'll get to 6 eventually.