Casino hand vs a competent LAG OMG!!!

[thizzSantaCruz]

1/2 blinds 200nl 200 eff


I have no history with this player but I am good friends with one of his poker buddies. They both have a similar style, they talk constantly trying to get in their opponents heads. They are very loose pf with their raises and give off a maniacal image, but they do know how to fold post flop.

1st hand with villain. Live straddle is on, UTG calls $4. Villain is on the button and raises to $12. I'm in the SB with 88 and 3bet to $38. Villain is talking constantly while I am reaching for chips to reraise and continues to talk when I make the raise which is pretty standard for him. He calls the raise after asking a couple stupid questions.

Flop comes out QT7r, and I lead out 50, villain snap calls and starts talking about his quick call and how its scary. At this point I made the decision of check/folding if he calls my c-bet.

Turn is a J, and I check to him. He checks behind.

River is a blank and I check once more, and he shoves.

The more I look at this, the more I think I might be ahead here. The only hand I see him checking the turn with here is AK. He could be trying to pick off a river bluff. My real question though, is can I bet the turn. With my understanding of this guys play he would c/bomb any Q that he thought was good here. He 4bets KK+, QQ is pretty unlikely and I do not think that if he has a T he can stand up to the pressure of another bet. AK is probably the only hand that he calls with here and I think it is a relatively small part of his range. What is your line on the turn here? As played what do you make of his river shove?

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

3bet preflop is way too big - why did you raise to this amount?

JJ/1010/77/QJ/98/AK are all possible holdings for villain. It's casino poker so you definitely cannot rule out the slowplay!

[thizzSantaCruz]

This guy is not the type to slow play. At the time I did not realize this but actually had thought he was another player that I had some history with. No way this guy slow plays in this situation. Kevin (my buddy) and him are routinely involved in 500 max home games, they are good players. Their style is a little different than internet players though.

And VZ you say my 3bet is too big? 3.5x his raise is no good? Is this because of the stack to pot ratio we are building?

[I Like Pie]

3bet preflop isn't too big, I wouldn't 3bet in the first place here but it's a good size.
I don't know what to do postflop, I'd probably c-bet and take a stab at it but I would give up after that for sure.

[griffey24]

How aggressive has he been preflop? Would he felt with a hand like AK pre?

If you think he's capable of a fold I think that turn card is the perfect card for you. AK is definitely in your range, and if he would push AK pre then I don't think its as strongly in his range. The only problem here is a push is only about 120 into 180. If we had a bit more behind I'd say this would be a good spot to push.

Check-fold isn't bad though, cause I agree with Vi that there are a ton of hands he could have here that wouldn't fold anyhow.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I wouldn't 3-bet 88 against this guy, but it's not necessarily a mistake. With the straddle it's also effectively a 2/4 game btw.

Anyways, i think you're line was good. I'd probably call the river. This is exactly where a live player bluffs and usually gets a fold. And you're right, if he had a strong enough hand to get all in with why wouldn't he bet the turn.

I really really hope you called and if you did i would love to hear the reactions.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Also, i would try saying... "i think i'm gonna call you" or "i think i'm going to call you with a crap hand." And see if he gives off a tell.

[gabe]

how about you be the one pushing ?

[thizzSantaCruz]

well if we push we should push the turn for our line to make sense correct?

And villain will look us up if my line doesn't make sense.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

how about you be the one pushing ?

yeah better.

[Toadstool]

If you think you are ahead after the turn then surely check/call a push is better?

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

And VZ you say my 3bet is too big? 3.5x his raise is no good? Is this because of the stack to pot ratio we are building?

I would have just raised to $28-30 preflop just to set up for a smaller flop bet and a larger turn push. I don't see why a larger raise would be better, as both sizes - provided you 3bet a fairly wide range (8-8+/A-Q+/occasional small PP/SC would probably be sufficient) - remove the value of implied odds for set hunting. It also sets up for a relatively smaller turn push, which in turn means slightly less fold equity.

In most lower limit casino NL games, i'd imagine you could 3bet bigger with your strongest hands only to set up for those smaller turn shoves and smaller with the rest versus most players. I can't say for sure though since im not 21, but i have played small stakes spread limit a few times at the casino and everyone sucked lol.