$24 - AQ facing reraise 2x

[mattiesmat]

1st hand: reraiser is 20/18 over 90 hands.
2nd hand: reraiser is 24/10 over 50 hands.

-- Hand 1 --
Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero (t1630)
Button (t1245)
SB (t1280)
BB (t1825)
UTG (t2330)
UTG+1 (t1920)
MP1 (t580)
MP2 (t515)
MP3 (t2175)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Ac, Qd.
5 folds, Hero raises to t250, Button raises to t900, 2 folds, Hero ??


-- Hand 2 --
Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero (t1380)
CO (t1645)
Button (t1230)
SB (t1725)
BB (t2330)
UTG (t1920)
UTG+1 (t580)
MP1 (t515)
MP2 (t2175)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Ah, Qd.
4 folds, Hero raises to t250, 2 folds, SB raises to t1725 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero ??

[DetroitHusling101]

I think both are folds. At least thats my line.

[taipan168]

Both are folds for me too. Villains would need significantly more aggressive stats for me to shove over/call in these spots.

BTW I would have open shoved the second hand with <14x BB.

[JeffreyGB]

How often our opponents are raising is only moderately important in these spots. Many people will only 3-bet with big hands regardless of how often they open. Here almost all of those hands dominate you, so without a read of your opponent reraising frequently, I am definitely folding.

I disagree with Taipan about shoving the 2nd hand. I think you still have time to make normal bets, and a shove is a bit off balance on the risk/reward situation to me. You're only picking up about 11% of your stack when you get folds, and are rarely in good shape when called. I look for at least 15% gain before I'll shove (which means either antes, limpers, or 10xBB).

[taipan168]

I disagree with Taipan about shoving the 2nd hand. I think you still have time to make normal bets, and a shove is a bit off balance on the risk/reward situation to me. You're only picking up about 11% of your stack when you get folds, and are rarely in good shape when called. I look for at least 15% gain before I'll shove (which means either antes, limpers, or 10xBB).

I don't agree on this one. Shoving is always +EV, no matter what they call with. Whilst shoving might not be the most +EV way to play (eg. we would be losing value from AA and KK by shoving here even though it would always be +EV) in this case with an unmade hand and 150 chips in the pot, I'm happy to get it AI. Whilst our stack is still probably deep enough to make a standard raise and c-bet the flop if called, doing so would leave us pretty short.

In reality it's probably right on the border for me between open shoving and making a standard raise, but I probably just lean towards open shoving here.

[JeffreyGB]

I don't agree on this one. Shoving is always +EV, no matter what they call with. Whilst shoving might not be the most +EV way to play (eg. we would be losing value from AA and KK by shoving here even though it would always be +EV) in this case with an unmade hand and 150 chips in the pot, I'm happy to get it AI. Whilst our stack is still probably deep enough to make a standard raise and c-bet the flop if called, doing so would leave us pretty short.

In reality it's probably right on the border for me between open shoving and making a standard raise, but I probably just lean towards open shoving here.

Just because it is +EV doesn't mean it is more +EV than a standard raise, which is what I'm recommending. I think R > P > C > F

[taipan168]

Just because it is +EV doesn't mean it is more +EV than a standard raise, which is what I'm recommending. I think R > P > C > F

I think it's close and it's hard to tell which is more +EV. I agree that just because shoving is +EV doesn't mean it's the best play (as per my AA/KK example). Definitely with a bigger stack I would not shove here, and with 11x BB I would definitely shove, but here it's hard to tell.

I think that I prefer to take the lower risk option and just shove it though.

[mattiesmat]

I think it's close as well. I think it depends on the situation as well.
If all relative loose players are left to act a shove is better, because it sux playin it post flop (often) and get little respect if you cbet.
Also loose players call often with worse hands.
Also you want to see all 5 five cards if that's possible, so shoving gets more value in that sense.

If only winning regulars or tight players are left to act, raising is better I guess, because you can put them on smaller and more accurate ranges.
We might be able to fold it when someone pushes over with a AQ+ TT+ range.
Also regulars will lay it down more often, so a raise wins the pot a lot also.
If we get called, it is easier to play postflop with a smaller and more accurate range.