Different goals in the different stages

[Vice]

Hey guys, I am new to the forum but I am planning on becoming a regular here. I have been playing sngs and reading all kinds of stuff for half an year but I feel one question is very rarely asked. What should be your goals in the different stages of the sng and in the whole sng? For example, in the early stages, are you trying to just maintain your intial stack of 1500 chips, or you will risk and look for an opportunity to steal that pot where everybody has check to you (on the button) on the turn? Is your overal goal to win the sng or just to place somewhere ITM?

Ok, now I will tell what I think about my question:
Generally, your goal should be to place ITM. Once you are ITM, however, your goal should be the frist place.
In the early stages I am just trying to maintain my starting stack or to double up if I have a monster hand.
In the mid stages my goal is to have at least 2500 chips when I get into the bubble.
In the bubble I am trying to get ITM (not to increase my stack).
In the money I will generally speaking try to win the frist place (however, if I am shortstacked along with another player, my goal would first to avoid elemination before the other short stack, and once there are two player left, I can attack the first plays).

Now please discuss.

[taipan168]

Hi and welcome to the forums, it's good to have you here.

Interesting question you ask. My answer is you should aim to make the most $EV positive decision you can. Do this and the rest will take care of itself.

Now, what does this rather abstract statement mean? This:

Generally, your goal should be to place ITM. Once you are ITM, however, your goal should be the frist place.

...is usually correct although there may be specific situations when it doesn't hold.

This:

In the early stages I am just trying to maintain my starting stack or to double up if I have a monster hand.
In the mid stages my goal is to have at least 2500 chips when I get into the bubble.

...is kind of irrelevant - the most +EV decisions may be to fold every hand until it's time to start shoving all-in. You can't necessarily set a chip goal for various stages of the tourney.

This:

In the bubble I am trying to get ITM (not to increase my stack).

...may not always be true. For example, if you have the big stack and the other three players are playing super weak/tight, you should be raising aggressively to steal the blinds to build your stack and put you in a good position to win th whole tourney. There have been times when I have increased my stack from 5000 to 10,000++ before the bubble has ended by playing aggressively.

[Vice]

the most +EV decisions may be to fold every hand until it's time to start shoving all-in.

I have been thinking to this one in some basic terms. Lets imagine you generally fold every hand until you have 1000 chips and the blinds are 100/200 and it is time to fold/all in. Let`s say 3/4 of the times you make +$EV plays and you end up with something like your AQ against KJ. You are 2-to-1 favourite. If you win, you will end up with 2000 chips and there probably will be 5 players still in the game. With this level of blinds, you will most likely have to double up one more time in order to get ITM. If we apply the same fractions (3/4 good play * 2/3 favourite) and we multiply them withe the previous play, you have roughly speaking 25% chance of getting ITM. Of course, all of these numbers are wide approximations which I have come up with from my experience (which is not pretty big - I have played about 500sngs and 5.5$ level). Anyway, I feel like I am missing something, if not a lot of important aspects. What do you think?

[taipan168]

One really important aspect in SNGs (which helps you determine what is a $EV decision) is the Independent Chip Model. This basically translates chip stacks into $ values (or more correctly, % of the prize pool that your chip stack represents). It's really important to understand this model if you want to be a serious SNG player - not necessarily the mathematics behind it, but what the implications of it are. I don't have any articles ready to hand (I should I guess) but if you Google it (or its abbreviation ICM) you should find some good ones.

Also, you should look into getting SNG Wiz, that will help you determine what is a +$EV or -$EV push or call. It has a 30 day free trial so you can see whether you like it before you have to pay for it.

[szamvan]

I found these useful:
http://www.chillin411.com/node/7
http://www.chillin411.com/node/8
http://www.chillin411.com/node/9

also here is an online ICM calculator:
http://www.chillin411.com/icmcalc.php

[Vice]

Yeah thanks for that I also found some great site about icm: http://www.pokerhelper.com/icm-1.php

[taipan168]

There is also a downloadable ICM calculator, available from here:

http://nyjet_twoplustwo.home.mindspring.com/ICM/ICM.exe

[Shep]

The important thing is to set goals. You at least have that much figured out. I actually like the plan that you have. But what I like to do is get ahead early. Dont just try to maintain your stack. Once you have a little more than that average stack, you can build off of it.
Well, good luck at the tables,
-Shep!