QJs with 12bb on button

[snowboard_31]

Is this preflop play ok? I time banked a long time before calling, but i think pushing may have been the correct play.

POKERSTARS GAME #14286928901: TOURNAMENT #71862469, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IX (300/600) - 2008/01/03 - 03:25:03 (ET)
Table '71862469 62' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: MJpockets (12774 in chips)
Seat 2: Falkensten (12756 in chips)
Seat 3: Jeff161616 (14445 in chips)
Seat 4: Quinnster (18809 in chips)
Seat 5: Buddy81245 (7621 in chips)
Seat 6: Gizardpuke (13116 in chips)
Seat 7: ab0ve1bel0w (12053 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO (7466 in chips)
Seat 9: foldsaces2 (17437 in chips)
MJpockets: posts the ante 50
Falkensten: posts the ante 50
Jeff161616: posts the ante 50
Quinnster: posts the ante 50
Buddy81245: posts the ante 50
Gizardpuke: posts the ante 50
ab0ve1bel0w: posts the ante 50
HERO: posts the ante 50
foldsaces2: posts the ante 50
foldsaces2: posts small blind 300
MJpockets: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Qc Jc]
Falkensten: folds
Jeff161616: folds
Quinnster: folds
Buddy81245: folds
Gizardpuke: folds
ab0ve1bel0w: folds
HERO: raises 1200 to 1800
foldsaces2: raises 1200 to 3000
MJpockets: folds
HERO: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [4c Kh 6c]
foldsaces2: checks
HERO: bets 4416 and is all-in
foldsaces2: calls 4416
*** TURN *** [4c Kh 6c] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [4c Kh 6c Jh] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
foldsaces2: shows [As Ks] (a pair of Kings)
HERO: shows [Qc Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
foldsaces2 collected 15882 from pot

After his min reraise I put him on a strong hand as he didnt come over to put me all in and was screaming for me to push. I called hoping to outflop or dump as id still have about 8bb.

On the flop I think the push was pretty obvious, its +EV even if he has a king as the pots too big, but it also gives me fold equity if he has a low pp that whiffed or AQ, AJ.

[drmcboy]

don't post results.

I called hoping to outflop or dump as id still have about 8bb.

On the flop I think the push was pretty obvious

Him checking doesn't change his range much - it's scarier to me than him open shoving. So still dump it.

[snowboard_31]

yah sorry bout posting the results.

I agree that checking was again showing alot of strength, but with the amount of money in the pot already and my stack size u dont agree that (even knowing that majority of the time we are behind) that our FD, BDSD are enough to push right now?

Without including any fold equity, assuming he definately has a king (but JJ, QQ, TT, AQ I think do the same as he did in this spot)
Pot=7350
My stack=3466
FD comes in=35%

EV= .35x(7350+3466+3466) + .65x3466
=4998.7 - 2252
=2746.7 +EV

2 questions tho:
1) preflop should I have pushed with only 12bb, or is this hand too marginal
2)after the min reraise is this an easy fold?

[elipsesjeff]

if you're going to raise preflop, fold to a RR no matter how large you just can't afford to call. Also, I'm not making it 3x, but no more than 2.5x.

Postflop he checks there with either the nuts or a hand he'll call a shove with, so I check there everytime. He's already shown significant strength preflop.

[drmcboy]

open shoving pre is another option and I think it's better than raise/calling.

I missed you had the flush draw, but I would still check for the same reasons Jeff mentions.

You need to include the chance that your flush is no good in your EV calculation. Also, compare it to the value of taking a free card.

[chardrian]

I agree with jeff as to the 2.2-2.5x raise here. I disagree with folding pre as your hand has too much value to fold to a minraise here.

Postflop - I push as it gives me two ways to win: 1) my opp folds, or 2) I hit my 1/3 (maybe better) draw. Calling gives me one way to win (hit my draw) and with the stack we have we dont have enough room to not go after this +EV chance to hit the draw.

[snowboard_31]

yah after reviewing i absolutely hate my r/c line pre, it was pretty much r/f > push > r/c >call > fold agreed?

And true there probably was alot of value in checking, as it signified strength and I could have a free chance to improve to a much better hand, but i still think that there was also some fold equity over QQ, JJ, TT or even AQ as its possible he could take a similar line with those hands