First hand of $11 full tilt tourny

[pokernewb]

I should have folded preflop right?

Full Tilt Poker Game #4722228024: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (35826859),
Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:35:27 ET - 2008/01/03
Fadbamsen folds
Goldberry1 folds
xmexx folds
fumer folds
Hissuuron92 has 15 seconds left to act
Hissuuron92 raises to 120
Hero calls 120
mullspen folds
guenole folds
bembeler folds
*** FLOP *** [4d As 3h]
Hissuuron92 has 15 seconds left to act
Hissuuron92 bets 150
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to 450
Hissuuron92 raises to 750
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to 1,380, and is all in
Hissuuron92 calls 630, and is all in

[Warpe]

hole cards?

[pokernewb]

oops sorry, Ah Jd

[Vice]

I would fold it prelop here, I tend to play the early stages really conservatively . For example, I would almost never pay a raise to 4*BB with a AJ, I even rarely play AJ in the early stages (and when I play it, I don`t raise preflop). I try to stay away of trouble in the early stages, becaus I know I will be able to accumulate some chips in the midstages when the blinds start getting big.

[taipan168]

Yes, fold it preflop. If it was folded to you then make it 120 to go.

This hand is actually a really good example of reverse implied odds - by calling 120 chips preflop you risk losing your whole stack if you make your hand on the flop but that hand is second best.

[pokernewb]

thanks guys. I had a feeling he was trying a steal which is pretty dumb considering it was the first hand of the tourny. Even if that was the case though i guess i should have just reraised him preflop. Also i probably should have folded on the flop when he reraised me. For some reason i just had a feeling he was raising crap. I think i just got lucky this time though, although unlucky with the result.

Hero shows [Ah Jd]
Hissuuron92 shows [Ac 5s]
*** TURN *** [4d As 3h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [4d As 3h 2c] [7h]
Hero shows a pair of Aces
Hissuuron92 shows a straight, Five high
Hissuuron92 wins the pot (3,045) with a straight, Five high
Hero stands up

[rowey]

thanks guys. I had a feeling he was trying a steal which is pretty dumb considering it was the first hand of the tourny. Even if that was the case though i guess i should have just reraised him preflop. Also i probably should have folded on the flop when he reraised me. For some reason i just had a feeling he was raising crap. I think i just got lucky this time though, although unlucky with the result.

Hero shows [Ah Jd]
Hissuuron92 shows [Ac 5s]
*** TURN *** [4d As 3h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [4d As 3h 2c] [7h]
Hero shows a pair of Aces
Hissuuron92 shows a straight, Five high
Hissuuron92 wins the pot (3,045) with a straight, Five high
Hero stands up

This early in a tourney you definitely don't want to reraise with AJo, even if you have the feeling he's trying a steal, it just puts too many of your chips in danger early in a sit n go. Remember you're trying to make top 3 not win the thing.

[taipan168]

For some reason i just had a feeling he was raising crap.

Feelings don't make you money, solid reads or hand ranges based upon prior experience do.

[pokernewb]

Well i've leaernt my lesson and won't make the same mistake. I assume i'd also fold AQ, but i should reraise AK correct?

[DetroitHusling101]

Fold AJ to a raise. First levels i wouldn't even play AJ from EP/MP , my general rule is if its folded to me in the CO ill raise AJ , if theres limpers in front i'll def call if its suited and sometimes fold if not , either way i think limping behind is ok.
I raise AQ from any position if folded to. If theres 1 limper behind I'll usually make my standard raise (4xbb) + 1 for the limper but if theres multiple limpers i tend to just limp along so i don't have to raise so much preflop and if i don't hit it makes cbetting expensive and dents the stack. When you limp along though you have to play post flop a lot more careful/cautious.
AK in most cases i flatcall the raise.

This is all assuming we are at blind Level 1 or 2.

[taipan168]

I raise AQ from any position if folded to. If theres 1 limper behind I'll usually make my standard raise (4xbb) + 1 for the limper but if theres multiple limpers i tend to just limp along so i don't have to raise so much preflop and if i don't hit it makes cbetting expensive and dents the stack. When you limp along though you have to play post flop a lot more careful/cautious.

I agree with this, and I also tend to fold AQ to a raise (unless opp is a maniac and we are in position).

AK in most cases i flatcall the raise.

I think this depends on the situation:
- If the raiser is tight and is in EP and we are in position (CO or Button) I tend to just flat call
- If the raiser is tight and is in EP and we are in the SB I might also just flat call with the intention of C-R a flop with an A or K in it
- If the raiser is tight and in EP but 2+ players call between the raiser and us then I'll re-raise to isolate
- If the raiser is LAGG and in EP I will tend to re-raise and call a shove from whatever position
- If the raiser opens on the CO or button and I'm on the button I might just flat call and play position
- If the raiser opens on the CO or button and I'm in the blinds I re-raise to give him a chance to fold.

[karnouk]

I would fold this hand early in the tournament with this 4BB bet before you and people yet to act after you.

[karnouk]

- If the raiser is tight and in EP but 2+ players call between the raiser and us then I'll re-raise to isolate

Would you still do that in a micro stake SNG? In my experience at the 5.50 and unders, especially at the first blind levels, A reraise might have a lot of callers. With AK, in this spot I just flat call, and shut down if I dont hit the flop.

- If the raiser is LAGG and in EP I will tend to re-raise and call a shove from whatever position

You mean you call a shove rereraise from the LAGG guy? If he is UTG and you are UTG+1 do you still do that with lots of players talking after you?

- If the raiser opens on the CO or button and I'm on the button I might just flat call and play position

Maaan Tai, I understand how you became that good. Even if your opp is the Button, you can kick his bottom and take his seat to become the Button yourself. Strong play

[taipan168]

- If the raiser is tight and in EP but 2+ players call between the raiser and us then I'll re-raise to isolate

Would you still do that in a micro stake SNG? In my experience at the 5.50 and unders, especially at the first blind levels, A reraise might have a lot of callers. With AK, in this spot I just flat call, and shut down if I dont hit the flop.

The problem with flat calling is that if there are, say 4 opps in the hand with you and even if you hit an A or K, you risk running into a random two pair-type hand if you don't re-raise to isolate. Often if there are 2+ callers, the correct raise is ALL-IN. Any time there is >15% of my stack already in the pot before I act, I tend to shove if I'm going to play.

- If the raiser is LAGG and in EP I will tend to re-raise and call a shove from whatever position

You mean you call a shove rereraise from the LAGG guy? If he is UTG and you are UTG+1 do you still do that with lots of players talking after you?[/quote]
Yes, I call a shove from the LAGG guy. If I re-raise and somebody other than the LAGG raiser shoves over obv time to get out (unless they are LAGG too).

[pokernewb]

Very interesting. I just had another hand (4th hand of the tourny), and this was the third raise one opp had made. He folded the second hand though. BB is first level at 30 and his first two raises had been 240 and 480. This hand his raise was 420 from UTG+1 and it was folded to me in CO. So I'm pretty sure he's a maniac. Do I flat call him, push or fold?

EDIT: if i flat call him how would i play a missed flop? A cbet probably has little chance of taking the pot which would mean i'd lose my money 2/3 of the time. I guess this means i push or fold preflop.

[DetroitHusling101]

Post the actual hand
You can't flatcall though for 1/3rd of your stack unless maybe you were in the sb and planned on open shoving any flop no matter what comes (stop n go) but i would probabally just shove over if the guys a maniac.

[pokernewb]

Full Tilt Poker Game #4740172302: $10 + $1 Madness (35969070), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:51:39 ET - 2008/01/04
Seat 1: Coug It (1,500)
Seat 2: Hero (1,500)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (1,500)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (1,500)
Seat 5: ZugeMan (1,500)
Seat 6: lap0428 (1,500)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME (1,500)
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu (1,500)
Seat 9: mustbust (1,500)
Coug It posts the small blind of 15
Hero posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [2h Kd]
Lizard King 16 folds
Hyun-Kook folds
ZugeMan has 15 seconds left to act
ZugeMan is sitting out
ZugeMan has timed out
ZugeMan folds
lap0428 folds
ZugeMan has returned
TAKENTIME raises to 240
OnajIzBatocinu folds
mustbust folds
Coug It folds
Hero folds
Uncalled bet of 210 returned to TAKENTIME
TAKENTIME mucks
TAKENTIME wins the pot (75)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 75 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Coug It (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Hero (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: ZugeMan didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: lap0428 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME collected (75), mucked
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: mustbust (button) didn't bet (folded)



Full Tilt Poker Game #4740184710: $10 + $1 Madness (35969070), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:52:38 ET - 2008/01/04
Seat 1: Coug It (1,485)
Seat 2: Hero (1,470)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (1,500)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (1,500)
Seat 5: ZugeMan (1,500)
Seat 6: lap0428 (1,500)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME (1,545)
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu (1,500)
Seat 9: mustbust (1,500)
Hero posts the small blind of 15
Lizard King 16 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [4h 6d]
Hyun-Kook folds
ZugeMan has 15 seconds left to act
ZugeMan folds
lap0428 raises to 60
TAKENTIME folds
OnajIzBatocinu folds
mustbust calls 60
Coug It calls 60
Hero folds
Lizard King 16 folds
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9s Js]
lap0428 checks
mustbust checks
Coug It checks
*** TURN *** [Jd 9s Js] [Ah]
lap0428 checks
mustbust checks
Coug It has 15 seconds left to act
Coug It checks
*** RIVER *** [Jd 9s Js Ah] [Qh]
lap0428 checks
mustbust checks
Coug It bets 150
lap0428 raises to 300
mustbust folds
Coug It calls 150
*** SHOW DOWN ***
lap0428 shows [Tc 8c] a straight, Queen high
Coug It mucks
lap0428 wins the pot (825) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 825 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd 9s Js Ah Qh]
Seat 1: Coug It (button) mucked [As 3s] - two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 2: Hero (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: ZugeMan didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: lap0428 showed [Tc 8c] and won (825) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 7: TAKENTIME didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: mustbust folded on the River



Full Tilt Poker Game #4740204363: $10 + $1 Madness (35969070), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:54:11 ET - 2008/01/04
Seat 1: Coug It (1,125)
Seat 2: Hero (1,455)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (1,470)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (1,500)
Seat 5: ZugeMan (1,500)
Seat 6: lap0428 (1,965)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME (1,545)
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu (1,500)
Seat 9: mustbust (1,440)
Lizard King 16 posts the small blind of 15
Hyun-Kook posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jd 3h]
ZugeMan raises to 60
lap0428 folds
TAKENTIME raises to 480
OnajIzBatocinu has 15 seconds left to act
OnajIzBatocinu folds
mustbust folds
Coug It folds
Hero folds
Lizard King 16 folds
Hyun-Kook folds
ZugeMan folds
Uncalled bet of 420 returned to TAKENTIME
TAKENTIME mucks
TAKENTIME wins the pot (165)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 165 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Coug It didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Hero (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: ZugeMan folded before the Flop
Seat 6: lap0428 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME collected (165), mucked
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: mustbust didn't bet (folded)



Full Tilt Poker Game #4740213245: $10 + $1 Madness (35969070), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:54:53 ET - 2008/01/04
Seat 1: Coug It (1,125)
Seat 2: Hero (1,455)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (1,455)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (1,470)
Seat 5: ZugeMan (1,440)
Seat 6: lap0428 (1,965)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME (1,650)
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu (1,500)
Seat 9: mustbust (1,440)
Hyun-Kook posts the small blind of 15
ZugeMan posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qs Ah]
lap0428 folds
TAKENTIME raises to 420
OnajIzBatocinu folds
mustbust folds
Coug It folds
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero folds
Lizard King 16 folds
Hyun-Kook folds
ZugeMan folds
Uncalled bet of 390 returned to TAKENTIME
TAKENTIME mucks
TAKENTIME wins the pot (75)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 75 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Coug It didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Hero didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Lizard King 16 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Hyun-Kook (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: ZugeMan (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: lap0428 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: TAKENTIME collected (75), mucked
Seat 8: OnajIzBatocinu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: mustbust didn't bet (folded)

[taipan168]

Hmm, it's a bit of a skimpy read, but given that opp raised 2 out of the last 3 hands and now makes a strange sized raise leads me to shove over here.

[DetroitHusling101]

My reply was with the intention that you had AK....TBH this early i might fold AQ just for fear of running into AK... guess i would just play it safe...

[Technooo]

Flatcalling AK is a mistake, you should usually fold to a tight raise and reraise a loose player.

Really you shouldn't be playing more than about 3 top hands (AA KK QQ) this early unless there's a really tasty opportunity.

[pokernewb]

damn I thought i mentioned my hand but obviously not, silly me! Yeah i think i'll play it safe again next time until i have a bit more info or i'm a bit more experienced. It was mainly the weird sized raises that made contemplate a move though. If he raised normal amounts i wouldnt have had such a dilemma.

Do good players ever do weird stuff like that, especially so early in the torney?

[DetroitHusling101]

Flatcalling AK is a mistake, you should usually fold to a tight raise and reraise a loose player.

Really you shouldn't be playing more than about 3 top hands (AA KK QQ) this early unless there's a really tasty opportunity.

What is a "tight" players opening range? Most TAG lower buyin sng players opening range is AQ+JJ+. How can flat calling with AK be a mistake?
Another point is that in the early stages , unlesss you have prior HUD stats on an opponent you cannot really classify whether they are tight/loose. Pokerstars has hundreds of thousands of different players on there network.
So i completly disagree with your statement.

[DetroitHusling101]

Techno , Here's another pokerstove example for you , since in another thread you suggest that the poster seriously consider laying down QQ 6 handed.

Hand 0: 50.711% 39.03% 11.68% 417039276 124799748.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 49.289% 37.61% 11.68% 401838924 124799748.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


Don't get me wrong , there are nits who only raise with AK QQ+ , or QQ+ for that matter. But we are talking lower buyin SNG's where your average opponent is not tight at all.
Your average TAG low buyin SNG player raises with the above range.
Some don't with AQ , but it seems the majority do.
And in a low buy in sng you can guarentee that a majority of the players are not TAG , so early in the tournament you cannot give another villian a label (tag , lag , weak-tight , loose passive) unless you have some kind of prior HUD stats that prove so.

[DetroitHusling101]

Really you shouldn't be playing more than about 3 top hands (AA KK QQ) .

This statement leads me to believe that your the guy who raises 4-5xbb UTG at Level 1 (10-20) , I call from the BU with 22. Flop comes xx2 , you flop overpair , i flop set , i stack you and you berate me (or think in your head) omg how can this donk call a 4-5xbb raise with pocket 2's , amirite?
No offense or anything , and I'm not trying to flame you , but i really don't think your ubernit tightness is the way to go. At least in lower buyin sng's , since that's all i can really speak on and is what is mainly discussed here.

[taipan168]

Flatcalling AK is a mistake, you should usually fold to a tight raise and reraise a loose player.

I agree with the part about re-raising a loose raiser but I disagree with folding to a tight raise. I echo what Detroit said, folding AK to a standard raise is super weak/tight.

Really you shouldn't be playing more than about 3 top hands (AA KK QQ) this early unless there's a really tasty opportunity.

You can't make a blanket statement like this. Are you open folding JJ when it's folded to you on the button?