Emotions and poker

[Vice]

I generally think I have a pretty good poker mindset - I am not short-term-result oriented, I try to accept badbeats with smile and say "I made the right play" (if it was indeed a right play, I do not even bitch out how unlucky I have been in the last weeks, days, games, whatever.

However, when I play multitple sessions in a row and out of 10 games I have lets say 7-8 badbeats, I start to feel bad, under pressure, and even a little bit depressed. This affects my game in a way that I cannot play as good as I can after I had several badbeats in a row. I don`t think I have ever played on a tilt and that`s precisely because I stop playing when I start experiencing negative emotions. However, I try to play a lot of sngs one after another and not doing it becaise of some emotions is not v efficient when I try really hard to maximize the number of tournaments I play and build my roll.

I do not know if there are actually people playing poker for a living here (although I assume there are), but I am reallycurious how these of you handle your emotions when you play poker and specifically suffer a badbeat.

I have been thinking that I can complete erase the notion of winning/losing money/sngs from my head. I could try perceiving playing poker as a hobby or something like that (although my goal is to make money).

My ideas are a bit scattered, but that is exaclty why I am writing this post, I will appreciate some help from the more experienced posters here on the topic.

[jyms]

http://www.grinderschool.com/articles.php?article=2.1

[Vice]

Ok, I read the article, but it really doesn`t help much. I tilt (if feeling bad after you had 5 badbeats in a row is a tilt), but I do not play when I am on tilt. My problem is how to avoid feeling bad even after having 5 bad badbeats. I inderstand the game, the math involved in it, but if I lose a few coinflips along with a few3-to-1 favourtes in a row, then I can`t help, but go on tilt. If some of you can stay perfectly cool after such situation and play your A game, then please let me know how you do it (and do not say "Just take a break", I`m looking for something more useful than that).

[fjuanl]

Just think about what happens in the long run. If you are consistently getting into pots where you are a significant favorite, you will profit. Dont let the variance throw you off...stay confident

[elitemob]

Hey Vice,

first of all, I have to say that I didn't read the article yet, so if I'm writing something that is already in there, I hope you guys understand

Well, about your situation, I think everyone has a different approach to deal with the swings, that eventually will happen to everyone of us. But nobody can tell you how you could handle them best, you have to find your own way in the end. But I can tell you how I deal/dealt with such things. First of all, probably like you after much pondering and thinking if I should REALLY try poker with real money, I did, but I said to myself: this money is gone, it doesn't "belong to you" anymore, it's your bankroll now, it's just like "play money" ... you invested it into a hobby, just like those monthly payments for the tennis club. Well that attitude helped me a lot personally (I'm more of a cash table player btw). I noticed I could without any second thoughts bet those 10$ at the 0.10$/0.25$ tables and have absolutly no problem loosing them. For me it was just about the attitude. And don't get me wrong, I want to make money too and I'm ambitioned as well. But as I said ... you have to find your own way, I have found mine ... for now. Of course this whole situation changes, if your existence depends on your winnings of playing poker.
Maybe that'll help you a bit, I don't know, I just thought I'd share my thoughts

One other thing, it has been written a few times on the board. Be very self aware and reflect on those situations, because humans have this tendency to (sometimes extremly) amplify negative experiences and blend out the positive ones. Try to always remember those "ownage" moments as well! Because it'll help you during the bad times. Just don't get nostalgic or anything! It helps looking objectivly at your own situation, get the emotional balance back. For example, just about 3 hours ago, I took down a 87.70$ pot at a 0.10$/0.25$ NL table. You know what I'm gonna do? This may sound really silly, but I'm gonna print the hand history and put it somewhere, in a poker folder or something. Because I know, it'll help me the next time I loose 25$ at a table. It'll help me get the balance back, remind me, that I REALLY can play poker if I focus and that there are GOOD moments as well. I think you see where I'm getting at.

I completly agree with fiuanl as well by the way.

As a last thing, always try to get feedback about hands/your general game from other players here in the forums or rl friends.

Hope my post helps a bit.

[DetroitHusling101]

Get the book "The Poker Mindset" By Matthew Higgler.
I never read it but i think it deals with a lot of issues like what your talking about. Mainly coming to grip that the game is about the long term. I need to get the book myself :P

[jyms]

I just look at my long term success. Pretty easy,




I'm running fine over the last 139K hands.

[taipan168]

I agree with Detroit, get (and read!) the book The Poker Mindset, I thought it was well worthwhile. Funny, I recommended it to mattiesmat who recommended it to Detroit!

Read this post about dealing with bad beats, part of it is extracted from The Poker Mindset.

Also, I agree with what elitemob said, which in summary was (I think) ensure that you have a sufficient bankroll such that taking the bad beats really doesn't mean much to your overall roll. If you take 8 bad beats and finish OTM in 8 $5.50 tourneys that's a disaster if your roll is $50 (and will affect your emotions) but if it's $300 it's less of a big deal.

[elitemob]

I don't want to be picky or anything, but you should post your stats summed up over all 169 hands in your database, not only the 10 most profitable ones, to make a balanced assessement if you are doing fine in the long run in general. Showing only the best 10 hands without considering the other 149 proves nothing. I'm pretty sure you do fine though, this post isn't meant to offend you, I just wanted to put it in the right light

[Vice]

I agree with Detroit, get (and read!) the book The Poker Mindset, I thought it was well worthwhile. Funny, I recommended it to mattiesmat who recommended it to Detroit!

Read this post about dealing with bad beats, part of it is extracted from The Poker Mindset.

Also, I agree with what elitemob said, which in summary was (I think) ensure that you have a sufficient bankroll such that taking the bad beats really doesn't mean much to your overall roll. If you take 8 bad beats and finish OTM in 8 $5.50 tourneys that's a disaster if your roll is $50 (and will affect your emotions) but if it's $300 it's less of a big deal.

The second part of the post was really useful. Right now I can honestly say that I am somithing like 20%in phaze 2 (frustration) and 80 % in phaze 3 (acceptance). But, heck, I didn`t even think about phaze 4!?@$ I guess I should play, play, play, get to phaze 4 and everything should be just fine

[jyms]

I don't want to be picky or anything, but you should post your stats summed up over all 169 hands in your database, not only the 10 most profitable ones, to make a balanced assessement if you are doing fine in the long run in general. Showing only the best 10 hands without considering the other 149 proves nothing. I'm pretty sure you do fine though, this post isn't meant to offend you, I just wanted to put it in the right light

The point is that the bad beats happen, just as expected. But long term, 139K hands, they always even out. His thinking needs to be about long term, not the last two , three or ten bad beats. The only time i will worry about getting bad beat, is when it's my last dollar.

As for showing the other hands, why? I don't play them for profit. Obviously 72o is a loser. I don't think it's going to get bad beat and put me on tilt. OP was talking about bad beats and AA

[jyms]

By the way, I have read "The Poker Mindset" and it is a terrific book that helped me a lot.

[Ragnar4]

Mike Caro:

Root for your opponents to win the hand. Your opponent Shoves into your AA Verusus His KK. Root for the king to flop. Cheer for it, want it. That way, if it doesn't happen, you get consoled with the pot.

I know it seems hard to do. But it sure made my life easier. I've only flipped on a table once since. When calling someone a clown was about a weekly thing for me.

[Im_new]

I should try what Ragnar4 is advising....hmmm.... anything, please, anything...

[fjuanl]

bad beats keep losing players in the game. without losing players you dont win money

[karnouk]

1) I Run the numbers in Pokerstove to check how favorite I was in the hand. Even if I know roughly what the chances of winning were, it is a ritual that helps. My computer say to me " You were right "

2) Another thing that helps me when I need to calm down is "forcing a mental image of flat curve for the recent past games" (Bankroll or gain curve). A bit hard to describe. But basically saying to myself: Ok this is a virgin beginning. No loss, no win in the past. Just a new beginning and the only thing I can do is doing my best. After a bad beat when I go bust, I have this image of my curbs taking this -5.50$. I get angry. So I try to replace this bad image by a calm flat curve.

It is not totally related, but I love this article from Ed Miller, for the peaceful and zen ideas it vehiculates:
http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/q...-the-rain.html

[Vice]

Trainer_jyms, do you play cash or sngs?

[jyms]

Cash

[JeffreyGB]

I'll be a bastard and answer for him: Jyms mostly plays cash.

The same concepts (look to the long term and realize how much money it makes you when people call with crap) applies to SnGs though, with one caveat: Some of the lower level games see players playing SO loose that playing your good hands throughout still leaves you as a big mathematical dog to even make the money. Unless you have a monster, it can be better to just sit back and play the structure rather than the cards. You'll see far less beats this way, and it can improve your results for the lower stakes. As you move up, this style can become a big hinderance though.

[Vice]

I see..isn`t it a bit odd to show your CASH statistics since the variance in cash games and SNGs is notably different?

[bjsaust]

You just like to argue right?


The point of focusing on your longterm results when you have a bad short term result is valid in any form.

[JeffreyGB]

I see..isn`t it a bit odd to show your CASH statistics since the variance in cash games and SNGs is notably different?

Jym's example was from cash.

In the second sentence of my post, I explicitly said that the concept applies to SNGs as well.

The rest of the post noted some instances where short-term suckouts could have a negative long term impact, and touched on what to do to deal with them.

[bjsaust]

One thing I find helps, call it prep work if you will, is to actively acknowledge when its myself who sucks out. Most people get pissed when their AA gets cracked by KK, but barely blink an eye when their KK cracks someones AA. By making sure I acknowledge the times when I was an underdog but sucked out, it doesnt seem like such a big deal when someone sucks out on me.

I get happy when a bad beat happens. Those are the people that make me a profitable player. When I lose a 75% hand, that means three out of four times I win that hand, and those odds are good odds to be playing with.

Just this morning I was getting short and got AI with AKo v's two players who had AJo each. The flop was JJx and I tumbled out early, however I got AI v's two players with AK who both had AJ!!. Thats a fantastic result for me. I was wrapped, those are the hands we dream of in SnGs.

[Vice]

Yeah, I could have changed the topic a little. My point is that the long run in the sngs is longer than the long run in cash games I don`t have any mathematical proof of that, but a lot of forums, good players and friends of mine say this. That`s why I`m thinking of changing to cash...