How should I have played this hand? (6.50)

[bjsaust]

I dont like the call PF, but couldnt decide whether to raise or fold. Turn action?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t4110)
Hero (t3895)
Button (t1290)
SB (t2000)
BB (t2205)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, K.
UTG calls t150, Hero calls t150, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t600) 2, A, A (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t600) J (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets t350, SB raises to t1850, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero ???

[drmcboy]

pre flop I would either raise/fold based on UTG read, mostly fold. Also if you get re-rasied by the shorties you are pot stuck.

my initial reation was fold turn, but I think it's pretty close because of the big price you have. You can be bluffing here or maybe he has KJ/QJ and thinks he has the best hand and you have spades or a worse J/PP. And you would think he would raise/shove most As altough I suppose he could have a small A.

[bjsaust]

UTG was fairly loose and kinda aggressive. Not that many hands ago he raised K8o from C+1 4xBB and called a push from SB for about half his stack or more after stealing the previous two hands. My feeling was he could be trapping but more likely had a weak hand, he'd been mainly raising when entering hands.

SB was a fairly decent player. No specific reads, the hands he showed down were generally decent but some that didnt show down felt bluffy to me.

My initial thought was fold, but then I thought theres a fair chance he has a weaker J, or just plain thinks I'm bluffing and is stealing the pot.

I have no specific reason to believe anyone is slow-playing, however its fairly endemic at these levels.

[taipan168]

I almost always fold this preflop, even if UTG is loose I don't want to play KJo against somebody who has me covered.

As played, I definitely check behind on the turn rather than betting. With three opps in the hand there is too much chance that one of them is slowplaying an A or 22. I want a cheap showdown here.

As to what to do when you get shoved over, if your read is that SB is a decent player who hasn't shown down many bluffs, I'd just fold it and move on.

[drmcboy]

Here was a kinda reasonable range were it is OK to call getting 2/1 and it seems reasonable - we could add in more Ax but also more Jx and bluff hands/FDs.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,760 games 0.005 secs 352,000 games/sec

Board: 2s As Ac Jh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.250% 58.07% 08.18% 1022 144.00 { A4s-A2s, KJs, QJs, 54s, A4o-A2o, KJo, QJo }
Hand 1: 33.750% 25.57% 08.18% 450 144.00 { KsJd }

[DetroitHusling101]

I fold preflop i pretty much completly stop limping at 50/100 too. Unless im gonna get fancy with a higher PP or something and theres a maniac who's been raising every hand.

[bjsaust]

Yeah, I normally have a rule against limping from 50/100 on, but this time I just froze and wasnt sure what to do.

[bonaparte]

I'm probably folding preflop as well. However, why not put in a $300 continuation bet on the flop? SB was getting 7 to 1 odds to call on the preflop so he almost had to come along with any 2 cards, so a good chance he'll fold, BB played for free so he could have any 2 cards as well, so again a good chance at a fold. UTG, well we assume he has a good starting hand, probably not a pair of 2's, but maybe an Ax. If he doesn't have Ax then he has a hard decision. If the blinds fold he shouldn't continue to try to draw for a flush, if has Kx or Qx he doesn't have that many outs. If he doesn't have an A he has to fear you do (after all you did call his bet pre-flop). If UTG re-raises on the flop I know it is time to lay down my hand. If he calls I play with caution. (actually I would probably try to get to the river as cheaply as possible).

Also keep in mind the continuation bet only has to win the pot 1 in 3 times to break even, and even if you use it a lot and your opponents pick up on it, they still never know if you have something, or are just placing another one of those silly continuation bets.

[bjsaust]

I'm not a fan of bluffing at 4-way pots.

[badgers]

I'm probably folding preflop as well. However, why not put in a $300 continuation bet on the flop? SB was getting 7 to 1 odds to call on the preflop so he almost had to come along with any 2 cards, so a good chance he'll fold, BB played for free so he could have any 2 cards as well, so again a good chance at a fold. UTG, well we assume he has a good starting hand, probably not a pair of 2's, but maybe an Ax. If he doesn't have Ax then he has a hard decision. If the blinds fold he shouldn't continue to try to draw for a flush, if has Kx or Qx he doesn't have that many outs. If he doesn't have an A he has to fear you do (after all you did call his bet pre-flop). If UTG re-raises on the flop I know it is time to lay down my hand. If he calls I play with caution. (actually I would probably try to get to the river as cheaply as possible).

Also keep in mind the continuation bet only has to win the pot 1 in 3 times to break even, and even if you use it a lot and your opponents pick up on it, they still never know if you have something, or are just placing another one of those silly continuation bets.

- not a cbet, continuation betting needs you to be the preflop aggressor, ie. you continue your aggression.
- 1/3 pot bet is not going to win the pot 1/3 of the time here. No chance, not even close...

[bonaparte]

- not a cbet, continuation betting needs you to be the preflop aggressor, ie. you continue your aggression.
- 1/3 pot bet is not going to win the pot 1/3 of the time here. No chance, not even close...

You're right about the continuation bet here. I guess it would be a probe bet. (According to HOH). Am I really the only one here who sees a bet here as totally worthless? It's not like I'm going against 3 opponents who willingly put money in the pot. The BB simply checked, and the SB had 7 to 1 odds to call pre-flop, the flop isn't good for anybody who doesn't have an A. Even if they had a pair of 2's they still might fold. Maybe it's just me, but he $300 spent seems like it would give better than $300 of information. Of course maybe that's why I'm still a noob.

[bjsaust]

A pair of twos would have a full-house, they will never ever fold. Any PP could call using your same logic (well in peoples range). A-crap will call all day, also in peoples range. Hell, stuff like KQ, KJ even QJ could call figuring you're bluffing.