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Soupie made me do it 1 + .20 Set.

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  1. #1
    Ragnar4's Avatar
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    Default Soupie made me do it 1 + .20 Set.

    Stage #1054912260 Tourney ID 1857252 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $150 - 2008-01-15 01:05:49 (ET)
    Table: 19133072 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - BUSCHPOUNDER ($1215 in chips)
    Seat 3 - FREAKNSXY2 ($2220 in chips)
    Seat 4 - RAGNAR4 ($2130 in chips)
    Seat 5 - MARK78 ($1390 in chips)
    Seat 6 - SIR_RIS ($1015 in chips)
    Seat 7 - BCCODY ($2230 in chips)
    Seat 8 - TIGHTPLAY2 ($1210 in chips)
    Seat 9 - PLATINUMHAWK ($2090 in chips)
    MARK78 - Posts small blind $75
    SIR_RIS - Posts big blind $150
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to RAGNAR4 [2d 2c]
    BCCODY - Folds
    TIGHTPLAY2 - Folds
    PLATINUMHAWK - Calls $150
    BUSCHPOUNDER - Folds
    FREAKNSXY2 - Calls $150
    RAGNAR4 - Calls $150
    MARK78 - Calls $75
    SIR_RIS - Checks
    *** FLOP *** [5s 2s Qh]
    MARK78 - Checks
    SIR_RIS - Checks
    PLATINUMHAWK - Checks
    FREAKNSXY2 - Checks
    RAGNAR4 - Bets $150
    MARK78 - Folds
    SIR_RIS - Folds
    PLATINUMHAWK - Folds
    FREAKNSXY2 - Calls $150
    *** TURN *** [5s 2s Qh] [6h]
    FREAKNSXY2 - Checks
    RAGNAR4 - Checks
    *** RIVER *** [5s 2s Qh 6h] [4h]
    FREAKNSXY2 - Checks
    RAGNAR4 - All-In $1830
    FREAKNSXY2 - Calls $1830

    My question is: Was the weak flop lead, followed by the turn check wrong with such a co-ordinated board?
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  2. #2
    Yeah bet more on the flop . . 150 into 750 isn't going to scare of anyone from drawing out with spades/34 away etc. I'd bet 500 and be pretty content to take the pot there and then . .

    As played I bet the turn and I don't shove the river either your only going to get called by a hand that beats you either a 3 or backdraw flush.
  3. #3
    Ragnar4's Avatar
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    I guess the reason I asked, is because this is a standard play from Xianti's MTT strat guide

    The play is designed to make you look amazingly weak.

    The minbet isn't to scare anyone away, the shove is supposed to look like a last ditch effort to pick up the pot in a noobish way.

    Less co-ordination for the play then?
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  4. #4
    It's a SNG though isn't mate?
    I'd rather pick the pot up with 750 in it than worry about it on the river, that 750 in the middle is 1/3 of your stack, getting too cute could easily bust your nuts. Obviously it would be nice to not scare everyone away after flopping a great hand but there's still a fair amount of danger cards for our hand which we need to protect somewhat.
  5. #5
    Xianti's Avatar
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    Huh? I don't have a MTT Strat Guide. Which guide are you referring to, as I never bet minimum on the flop?
  6. #6
    Ragnar4's Avatar
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    oh crap.

    I meant Soupie's guide. How to win MTT's.

    About 30 topics into it. He used the exact play as a specific example.
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  7. #7
    For MTT's you really need to accumulate chips so taking some risks to extract more from opps can be good. In a 1-table SnG its probably just better to price out draws in such a big pot
  8. #8
    Xianti's Avatar
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    Aah.. ok. Soupie's MTT Guide. Keep in mind (and I believe soupie added a note at the end of the discussion thread for that guide addressing this), that guide was written well over a year ago and some of the tactics aren't really suited for today's game.

    I can't imagine a min bet that small compared to the pot on the flop is going to fool many players these days. That seems suspicious. You should definitely bet more... with 3 opps, I'd bet at least 3/4 of the pot or the pot. With just one opp, I'd bet at least half-pot on the flop... something that seems like a standard c-bet.

    You have to fire big again on the turn. I'd say half-pot. If he calls again or raises, slow down.

    As played, pushing on the river is a mistake.
    the shove is supposed to look like a last ditch effort to pick up the pot in a noobish way.
    That's fine, if you have a monster hand and you think a weaker hand may call you. But you have bottom set and his checking to you on the river suggests his hand is not that strong -- usually. A value bet may be in order if the board wasn't so coordinated, but seeing as how it was played, too many hands beat you. I would check behind.
  9. #9
    Ragnar4's Avatar
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    cool.. appreciate your input.
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  10. #10
    Ooh cool, putting Xianti's name in the subject title causes him to come give advice! I'll remember that
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  11. #11
    Xianti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by courtiebee
    Ooh cool, putting Xianti's name in the subject title causes him to come give advice! I'll remember that
    Aaahahahahaa... the secret is out!
  12. #12
    I would move in pre flop.

    don't slowplay without the unbeatable nuts in a 3+ player pot
  13. #13
    Soupie is awesome. One time he told me he was going to win the triple crown that week, then he did. Because he can. Ship it.
    It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
    Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

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