Turbo or Slow?

[Skeeno]

Bit of a silly question I guess.

I generally play turbo SNGs but having looked at my Sharkscope graph - (note I don't have exact numbers because I haven't fully subscribed - if someone's got em that would be great) my ROI at the $5 level is sky-high where as the $3 and $6 levels i.e the turbos its kinda lame well 10% or so. Therefore I'm thinking should I be just solely concentrating on the $5.50s whether it be 9,18, 27, 45 mans, I know I've not played a great number at the 5.50 level compared to say the 3.40 turbos or 6.50 18 man jobs but I'm thinking my time's probably far better suited to getting better at the slower blind games and look at multi-tabling them?

Cheers.

[fjuanl]

If you only care about hourly rate you should play turbos. I've heard that even if ROI goes up a little from playing regulars, you still make more money playing turbos.

[bjsaust]

I think your playing style is better suited to normals, for what thats worth.

Read my response to zachaser in his thread for some thoughts on this issue.

[Skeeno]

Cheers both of you, I tend to agree with you somewhat bjs . . I find the cards dictate matters too much in the turbo, if you get a run of dry cards then your looking pretty sticky by the 3/4th level where by in a regular that doesn't apply so much. I'm quite happy to be patient especially in say a 45 man $5.50, where by you cannot be anywhere near as patient in a $6.50 45 man turbo.

I also think it would be easier to multi-table the regulars than the turbos but again my experience at multi-tabling is pretty limited. Should I be looking to say play 2 $5.50s at once and look at building them up to say a maximum of 4 if I can cope with that, play a whacking great number of them and see what happens?

I guess my main problem really is I don't have a set game I stick to and play (I'll play 0.25/0.5 Limit; 10nl; $3.25 turbos; $4.40 180s; MTTs; $5.50 SNGs; $6.50 turbos), I think concentrating on one thing and sticking with it will prove beneficial.

Out of interest Bjs why do you think my style is more suited to normals?

[bjsaust]

From the Experiment you play a looser style where you're prepared to make moves post-flop. Normals are deepstacked for a long time, allowing someone like you to use your skills for the majority of the game. Turbos tend to get shortstacked fairly quickly where you lose that edge.

As far as multi-tabling goes, work on adding 1-2 tables at a time. Dont go from 1->6, but maybe go from 1->2->4->6 as you get comfortable.

[bonaparte]

Skeeno - I haven't really done an hourly rate comparison, but for me I find I can do better at the regular games for much the same reason BJ stated. Playing the regular games seem to give me a much better opprotunity to build my stack as needed before the blinds start to go way up, which gives me an advantage when everyone else is short stacked. Also I like less variance which is what I'm going to get in the regular games.

Now for multitableing. Yesterday I started to 2 table. I dropped down to the $1.20 level so I wouldn't lose a lot of money if I was overwhelmed. (If you do this don't expect to win, those $1.00 are totally LAGG. I swear their betting patterns are produced by a randon number generator. Also don't expect a lot of folding at any blind level.) After 12 SNG and a loss of $0.80 I can say that I am probably not ready for multi-table. For whatever reason I really had trouble keeping track of everything going on at 2 tables. I guess I can watch only one hand at a time. I guess I'm getting way off track here, what I really need to say is that I agree with BJ in that you should probably increase the number of tables you play slowly. For me it's back to $5.50 single tables.

[Skeeno]

Again thanks again to both of you . . Bjs again I agree I do like to play some post-flop poker, pushing/shoving's all well and good but it's nice to be able to play speculative hands from time to time, plus I think at low buyin levels, many players see decent top 10 holdings and are incapable of laying them down. At a regular buyin you've got more opportunity to take those peoples stack by playing them post-flop, where by in a turbo it's generally push/fold preflop.

Bonaparte I'm hearing you on the $1.20 levels aswell, not that I've played many and won't either . . . at least with the $5.50s their's an element of risk involved for standard players. I also wouldn't agree that you can't beat multi-tabling the $5.50s obv it depends on your bankroll, but you may be able to kill the $5.50s with two tables and not the $1.20s because they are so loose and ppl will call with absolutely anything. Anyways I'll be seeing you at the $5.50s because that's where the majority of my time's going to be spent.

[bonaparte]

but you may be able to kill the $5.50s with two tables and not the $1.20s because they are so loose and ppl will call with absolutely anything.

I did consider that. I just need to stop watching every move every player makes, and start playing ABC SNG.

[Skeeno]

I wouldn't say stop watching everything by any means but use Pokertracker and PAHUD to keep a closer eye on them, if your not at the mo. Obviously make notes as to what they raise with in certain positions and the amount of BB raise they make - whether they have any clue etc, but I think your more than competent enough to beat them at two tables.

That's unless you keep running your KK into AK

[fjuanl]

I dont think theres a particular style thats going to do better in regulars. If your better than your opponents you'll always do better in regulars vs turbos. Since it seems like your just starting out and aren't concerned about hourly rate, regulars are definetly the way to go. I play regulars just because I can't stand the push/fold fest of turbos

[bjsaust]

Turbos are all about the edge you get from knowing p/f poker and ICM. The rest of the poker universe barely applies. Skeeno has an edge that turbos dont allow him to exploit, therefore his style is better suited to normals.

[bjsaust]

Whats your roll like Skeeno? Checking you out on sharkscope you have more winnings than I do, and much better ROI at each level (although it doesnt show sample sizes). If you've got enough buyins (pick a number between 35 and 60), you should seriously think about the $11s the way you've killed the 5.50s and 6.50s.

Btw, on my graphs you show around 90% ROI on the 5.50s and 20% ROI on the 6.50s. Thats killing it for both of them.

[Skeeno]

Currently it's about $200 on Stars - mainly because I've got two kids who cost me a fortune (2 & 4 - so going to cost me a helluva lot more aswell) and poker is paying a portion of my bills, what with inflation going up faster than wages

Therefore until I get myself sorted out financially away from poker I can't stop taking the odd $100 a month from the bankroll, which hurts, I do have the capability to add to the roll, so I'm not worried about going bust from that $200 but I don't really want to play the $11s underrolled even if I can replace my bankroll with say doing a day's overtime. I tend to end up blowing a fair bit of on ring aswell lol.

90% at the $5.50s is deceiving as I've played a very low number compared to the $6.50s but having played a fair whack at the turbos. I think if I can get up near $350/400 I'll have a crack at the $11s or just play the $5.50s and throw in the odd $11 here and there. Thanks though and having seen your recent graph (very impressive) I'm pretty sure you'll be flying way above me before long mate.

[bonaparte]

That's unless you keep running your KK into AK

It's funny you should mention that. A couple SNGs later I ran my AA into AKo and lost. I couldn't help but chuckle a little at that one happening so soon after that KK incident. My opponent even appoligized to me after it happened.

Skeeno, if your taking $100/mo out of poker to help buffer your finances the you HAVE to master the $11.00 game. You'd be giving yourself a 100% poker raise to $200/mo if you did. After that I would has you HAVE to master the $22 game. Now we're talking $400 a month. I think this could be done in 6 months time. Also your BR would increase faster if you keep taking only $100/mo out while you're playing at the $11 game.

I'm with you though, I'd rather play poker than work overtime. Doing the same job again and again starts to get a little boring sometimes.

Money management: I know that for me I'm considering myself bankrolled for a level once I have 15 buying to that level in addition to each level below that. That way if I can't handle moving up I can always drop back to the next lowest level and still have 15 buyins.

My chart is follows:
(I only charted for the regular SNG levels on PokerStars)

$5.5 BR=$80 (provided by me)

$11.00 BR=$247.5 (allows me 15 buyins at 11 and 15 buyins at 5.5 if I lose)

$22.00 BR=$577.5 (allows me 15 buyins at the 22, droping down to 15 buyins at the 11 if I lose, droping to 15 buyins at 5.5 is I continue to lose)

$33.00 BR=$1072.50
$55.00 BR=$1897.50
$110 BR=$3547.50
$220 BR=$6847.50

Well that's my plan, I'm still working up the the $11 game, but I'm still a NOOB anyway. Take it for what's it worth.

[Skeeno]

They seem pretty decent figures if you can afford to reload the original $80 if things go real pear shape, I'm definately not a bankroll nit so I think I could probably do something similar. 15 buyins isn't a lot, but I think if you've got discipline to drop back down its worth attempting.

I just played an $11 and came 3rd sadly running my A7 into AA and losing but they seem no different to the $5.50s - 3/4 fish (going broke first hand with KQo etc), 2/3 average players, 2 decent capable ones so although I've only got $207 now . . I may give them an extended try and if things hit a dry patch and I'm down $100 or so I'll drop back to the $5.50s. That 3rd is pretty much the same as a 2nd in a $5.50 so yeah perhaps I'm not getting the most out of my ability.

Good luck! :P

[bjsaust]

Wow, I consider myself a fairly aggressive BR manager, and I wouldnt use those figures . I tend to use 25-30 as my mark, although as I move up I'll start upping those limits to more like 35 I think. Thats still a lot more aggressive than some, but I'm very strict about moving back down when I drop back below that mark. I do like the first one though, the rake at the $1.20s is 20%! A lot of people ignore that little fact. Moving up to the $5.50s gives you a 10% ROI boost just on rake, thats huge!

Skeeno, that makes sense then, wondered if you'd withdrawn or something. Your roll is still a little low in my books for the $11s, but you're a winning player, so if win a couple you'll soon be up there. Your call.

Thats one reason I love moving up. My graph looks nice now, but if I was playing the $5.50s instead, that nice big upward spike is still nice and upward, but only half as big.