Grinding options?

[zachaser]

I'm in my last semester of college, so on Thursday nights when I'm usually at work, I decided to take thursdays off and treat poker like a part-time job during that time. Making money is not a necessity, as I still work enough hours to cover expenses. I wouldn't mind a little extra, however. Basically, I will be playing online from 5-11, and was wondering what you guys thought was possible given I:
1. Grind the Stars 6.50's by 10-tabling tournaments continuously.
2.Grind the Stars 16.00's by 5-tabling in sets.
I realize both will be pretty high variance because my sample size will be low, but which do you think I would have a higher ROI doing on average?
Also, my bankroll is at $875 right now, so plenty of cushion for either. Any thoughts appreciated!

[mattiesmat]

If you can beat them I would play 16s and add more tables later.
Also I think 5 table difference is not really necessary.
Just don't join my tables.

[zachaser]

Haha, I've actually played at your tables a couple times, but we've never had any bubble encounters because one of us busted out early. How many tables seems good for the $16's?

[mattiesmat]

That's up to you.
Whatever feels comfortable.

[losttrem]

If you can beat them I would play 16s and add more tables later.
Also I think 5 table difference is not really necessary.
Just don't join my tables.

I wait for you to finish firing up your set every damn time. But sometimes it just takes too long. How many do you play, damn it?

[losttrem]

Back to topic: I agree with mattiesmat. If you can beat the 16s and you are rolled for it, then you should play them and add some tables. I am currently 6 tabling the 16s. Mainly because cascading tables just doesnt do it for me. I need to be able to look at all of them at the same time. I would too love to get to a point where I can make at least some extra money every month playing poker. Up until now I have cashed out of my roll twice. Once to buy SNG wizard and once to buy myself the Seinfeld dvd box for christmas. But I would really like to get to a point where I can comfortably cash out like 300 dollars every month without feeling guilty that I am hurting my bankroll. As said I am currently playing the 16s. I feel like I am a bit overrolled with ~150 BIs, but I just cant get myself to move up in levels. The $27s seem pretty tough to me. So I feel pretty stuck. I don't feel comfortable playing more than 6 tables and I don't feel comfortable playing higher than $16s. So really the only thing I can do is try to get more hours in and maybe take another shot at the $27s somewhere down the road. But back to you: The $16s arent all that tough to beat, so you would just be holding yourself back if you play the $6.50s when you can actually beat the $16s. Your options would suggest that the $16s are actually twice as tough as the 6.50s which is really not the case.

[bjsaust]

If you have $150 buyins for the the $16s, you have almost 90 buyins for the $27s. I would seriously think about giving yourself a 10-15 buyin stoploss margin and 2-4 table the $27s till you either master them or hit your stoploss mark. Especially if you're looking to make a bit of cash out of this.

[bjsaust]

As for your question zachaser, its only a small sample size, but I'm killing the $11s atm, they just seem really soft. From a recent thread JeffreyGB and Taipan (and others) both agreed that its much easier to maintain a higher ROI in the normals than the turbos. Of course the downside is the normals take a lot longer, however what I'm finding is that the counter to that is that you can play more at once. The extra time to make your moves allows you to have more tables going at once.

Something to think about anyway.

[mattiesmat]

I would seriously play a few thousand $16s before moving to $27s.
I have learned so much in my last 3000 $16s (ICM and advanced concepts) and I think I will really need it at $27s. My advice: buy a cool monitor and add some tables.

[drmcboy]

move to 27s unless you can't move down if you hit a bad streak

lol at mat, you're ready ++++++ for 27s

[DetroitHusling101]

All of your posts i remember seeing are from the $16 level , so if you have been beating those for a decent sized sample i would stick with them. Personally I am a nit and didn't want to take shots at the 16s until i had 1k. Since i have passed my mark i am now telling myself i want 100 buyins. But yeah im a nit and in the long run probabally just costing myself $$$$ since i could probabally beat the 16s for a decent ROI. Downswings affect me worse than others though (i think , not really sure how they affect others) , and i have a hard enough time dealing with 20 Buyin downswings at the 6.50's , so i would rather have more "br cushion" i guess you could call it when i move up to the 16s , mainly for emotion purposes.
I really need to learn to deal with tilt :P , I've broke 2 keyboards now!

[DetroitHusling101]

Oh yeah other comments:
If you have 9-10 tabled before than theres no reason to move down to 6. Maybe if you want to learn continous but other than that i would stick with 9 @ the 16s.
When i do have enough confidence to move up i will prob drop from 9--->6 tables but that's just to make the transition from 6.50s-->16. In your case if you have already 9-10 table in the past than i don't see a reason to drop tables.
I too want to learn continious but have yet to try it yet.

[zachaser]

Thanks guys, all the comments were helpful. Now specific responses:

Losttrem: The main reason I suggested 10 $6.50's or 5 $16.00's is because the money risked is about the same with each one. Also, play the friggin $27's! If I had your roll I'd be tempted to try out the $55's. But I'm a bit of a bankroll gambler..

Detroit:I've ten tabled, but not on the $16's. I really don't like the idea of risking $160 in one go, and I don't think my ICM is good enough to make those kinds of automatic decisions late stage in the $16's. Also, move up to the $16's! I don't see enough FTR regulars taking on the 2 + 2 nits.

Bjsaust:I know, I got a huge part of my roll from the 18 man $11's. If you haven't tried those yet, they're even softer than the one tables, with more opportunity to make money.

DRMCBOY: Was your first comment for me or Matties?

Mattiesmat:I've probably played around 200-300 $16's, which is obviously a small sample, but once I hit close to 1000, I feel like I'll definitely be ready to move up. Plus Sit N Go Wiz helps a ton.

[drmcboy]

both

it isn't like you can't learn at the 27s. You're always learning.

[taipan168]

Detroit, you really really should move up to $16s, stop being such a nit, you won't notice that much difference.

Mattiesmat, if you're rolled for $27s then play $27s, there is no need to play several thousand $16s before you move up. There isn't much difference in the standard of play.

(Of course I don't practice what I preach, still playing $27s/$38s with a $5k bankroll )

[mattiesmat]

Taipan168, you should really move up to 60s and exploit regulars.

[taipan168]

Taipan168, you should really move up to 60s and exploit regulars.

The issue that I have with moving up is not a BR issue. It's a question of how much edge I have at that level. I remember a post at the other place where they discussed the impact of your ROI on having increasing numbers of good regulars at your tables, and whilst there was no conclusion, there's no doubt that more regulars = less ROI.

The question is, am I better off playing $27s with a decent amount of bad players and a 12% ROI or $60s with many more good players and a 5% ROI (and the associated increase in variance)?

[bjsaust]

Bjsaust:I know, I got a huge part of my roll from the 18 man $11's. If you haven't tried those yet, they're even softer than the one tables, with more opportunity to make money.

Man, tried a set of 4 of these today. I'll agree they're soft, but wow they take ages to play. I'm not sure the extra prize money and place paid make up for the extra time you need to spend.