AJs in BB, two shoves in front ($12/180 turbo)

[taipan168]

MP1's stats were 21/21 over about 40 hands. What to do with AJs here, call or fold? Is this an isolation shove because UTG+1 could have almost anything, or is it a monster?

Poker Stars No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600 (Ante: t50)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t6638
UTG+1: t1080
MP1: t3220
MP2: t7630
CO: t8804
Button: t5155
Hero: t7080
BB: t10278

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with J A
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises all-in t1030, MP1 raises all-in t3170, 3 folds, Hero ????

[mcatdog]

This isn't close, even if you had a hand like 44 or KJs I would still call. UTG+1 can have almost any two cards. MP1 who is also short, should be shoving a whole lot of hands to try and gambool with a bunch of dead money in the pot.

I believe that in these turbos the fish are the people who fold too much and the people who win are the ones who gamble like maniacs.

[Sprayed]

Turbo tourneys are about gambling against ranges. Most of the time, I see MP1 with KQ+, A9+, 66+ here. UTG is irrelavent IMO since he is shoving very wide and your AJs is way ahead.

You're getting ~2-1, so even if you are a slight dog against MP1 it's a good play to call. Plus, if you loose, you are still in good position to fight your way back.

[bjsaust]

Wow, no wonder I sucked at the one of these I played.

[chardrian]

yup this is all about putting MP1 on a range. If he's doing this with A9 or worse this is a shove.

[mcatdog]

I played $12/180's for a couple of hours tonight because I needed some TLB points, and based on how they play, this is an even easier call than I imagined.

[Sprayed]

The only thing about the 180's is the sick variance. You have to be able to cope with that. Also, if you plan to multi these or just play a shit load, I would suggest at least having ~$2400 br.

For less variance and a good way to get TLB points, play the 45's. These normally only take about an hour compared to the the 180's which are about 1.5 hours.

[mcatdog]

For less variance and a good way to get TLB points, play the 45's.

Disagree, a win at a 45 gives as many TLB points as a 4th place at a 180 and I should get a top 4 at a 180 at least as often as a win at a 45. Of course I agree that you need a pretty big bankroll to play these.

[Sprayed]

For less variance and a good way to get TLB points, play the 45's.

Disagree, a win at a 45 gives as many TLB points as a 4th place at a 180 and I should get a top 4 at a 180 at least as often as a win at a 45. Of course I agree that you need a pretty big bankroll to play these.

Didn't say it was better as far as getting more. I was just saying that you can make a decent amount because you can money more often in the 45's and not want to kill yourself as much.

[drmcboy]

dumb question - why do you need TLB points?

[mcatdog]

I'm in 209th for January right now so playing for a few hours to get my $150 in equity for top 200 seems like a good idea.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tour...board/monthly/

[drmcboy]

I did not know it was for anything but pride, thanks for the info.

[donkbee]

The only thing about the 180's is the sick variance.

The turbos are ridiculous. I played them in December while studying for exams () and didn't cash a single one until like the 14th one when I placed 2nd. I couldn't believe that it was over in 1.5 hours.

[Sprayed]

The only thing about the 180's is the sick variance.

The turbos are ridiculous. I played them in December while studying for exams () and didn't cash a single one until like the 14th one when I placed 2nd. I couldn't believe that it was over in 1.5 hours.

IMO, the 45's are easier on the brain. Yes, if you are a good player, a big cash in the 180's can make-up for a ton of beats. But, I don't know if that is a good thing. I have looked at the TLB leaders on OPR and most of them either multi the 45's or 180's. Some mix it up and multi both. It would be an interesting discussion to me if someone that has done the math and know which is more beneficial to multi for $ and TLB points. mcatdog might be on to something. Anyone else want to share their wisdom? I'm currently 10 tabling the $6.50's with a $1600 roll on stars with decent success. Should I be doing something different?

tai's thread has been jacked a bit, new thread?

[mcatdog]

I'd be surprised if anyone on the leaderboard is just a 45 player. The problem is that even if you win twenty 45's in a month you still won't have enough points to make the leaderboard. You need some bigger scores which you can get by winning a 180 (or even coming in 2nd in one) or in my case, you can get three huge TLB scores because you ran better than a Kenyan this month.

If you want to win the monthly TLB though you can't just do it by playing 180's, you need two or three big scores. I think in general this new promotion isn't worth the time of anyone who's good at tournaments, but it's a nice bonus for small-stakes grinders who if they have a good month they can get an extra $50 or $100 plus a freeroll entry worth $100.

[Sprayed]

I'm a grinder that doesn't have the time to schedule 6-7 hours for the big tourneys. Because of this, the turbos are ideal for me since I can play them whenever I like. Yeah, I noticed that the players at the top usually have a couple big wins under their belt as well.

I was following players like bparis and jitterbug777. bparis was at one point strictly a 45 player but recently switched and is now play both 45's and 180's. jitterbug777 is a 180 player and is consistantly on the TLB.

I tried to strictly do the 180's for a while because of what I was seeing and couldn't deal with a $400 downswing. So, I'm back to the 45's and doing alright. However, the $6.50's ain't going to cut it for longterm TLB points and I know that. I am trying to sustain a roll that sustains each buy-in and grind my way up to the 60's. By that time, I believe that I will have the roll for the 180's as well and throw those in there.

If I don't succeed at getting on the board, no big deal. It's more of a mini goal and takes my mind off of the worries of my ever fluctuating roll.

[elipsesjeff]

In the past week I've played with Bparis everywhere from the Million to the $10r on Stars, and have sat next to himat least a half dozen other times. I think he still plays a large majority of large field MTTs.

[Sprayed]

I was comparing players that play the 45's or 180's when I said strictly. Like strictly plays the 45's and no 180's or vice versa. Yes he plays large fields as well. But, he fills his time in by playing a shit load of 45's and 180's.

[taipan168]

Haha, thanks for the replies everybody, nice hijack! BTW I did call this, just wanted a line check since I don't have a lot of experience in these.

Think I'll mix in a few of these tourneys with my normal STTs. I hate to think that all those pushament skills I've developed at the Stars single table turbos can't be used anywhere else

This is probably obvious to you guys, but the structure of the 180s is kind of interesting, with spots 10-18 all paying the same (and only a bit more than double your buyin). Really rewards aggressive play when it gets down to two tables I suppose.