is SnG wiz wrong? 2 hands for review

[jdubs]

I have been using my trial of SnG Wizard, I find its been pretty useful for analyzing my play mostly. And the quiz feature is awesome, gives you as many situations as you want to decide whether to call , push or fold. anyways, a couple of hands here I disagree with it's suggestion.

this hand seemed like a clear push to me... My M is 3, if the blinds hit me I am pretty much useless with am M of 2- I am the shortest stack, and no one is about to blind out ( except me maybe in a couple of orbits!) SnG Wiz says fold...

PokerStars Game #15006552203: Tournament #76053593, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/02/02 - 12:53:03 (ET)
Table '76053593 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 3: Henk88 (3965 in chips)
Seat 4: ECUFBODY (1995 in chips)
Seat 5: johncoltrane (965 in chips)
Seat 8: RedBean (2475 in chips)
Seat 9: beigne (4100 in chips)
Henk88: posts small blind 100
ECUFBODY: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johncoltrane [2s Ac]
johncoltrane: raises 765 to 965 and is all-in
RedBean: folds
beigne: folds
Henk88: folds
ECUFBODY: folds
johncoltrane collected 500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 500 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Henk88 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: ECUFBODY (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: johncoltrane collected (500)
Seat 8: RedBean folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: beigne (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)




This hand, I guess I can see the logic of pushing any two ( as SnG wiz suggests) , as if I raise say 3BB, and villain pushes back, I must call with the odds given- but to open push here to me seemed wrong?

okerStars Game #15006758083: Tournament #76053593, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2008/02/02 - 13:03:00 (ET)
Table '76053593 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: Henk88 (3550 in chips)
Seat 5: johncoltrane (4305 in chips)
Seat 8: RedBean (2225 in chips)
Seat 9: beigne (3420 in chips)
Henk88: posts the ante 25
johncoltrane: posts the ante 25
RedBean: posts the ante 25
beigne: posts the ante 25
johncoltrane: posts small blind 100
RedBean: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johncoltrane [4c 5d]
beigne: folds
Henk88: folds
johncoltrane: folds
RedBean collected 300 from pot
RedBean: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 300 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Henk88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: johncoltrane (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: RedBean (big blind) collected (300)
Seat 9: beigne folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[bjsaust]

Hand 1 is an easy fold.

Hand 2 is an easy push.



A2 fares terribly v's the calling range of any players yet to act, and theres 4 of them to go through. You still have 5BBs, and theres no antes yet, you can afford to wait for a better spot.


Our stack size dictates a push with 45o. You dont want to have to call a push over from the BB with this hand, so its all about maximising our FE. Doing everything we can to get BB to fold. If he calls and loses he's in pretty bad shape, so he should only call here with very strong hands, especially on the bubble. In the rare case he does call, at least 45o should give us 2 live cards as well as straight possibilities.

[jdubs]

Hand 1 is an easy fold.

Hand 2 is an easy push.



A2 fares terribly v's the calling range of any players yet to act, and theres 4 of them to go through. You still have 5BBs, and theres no antes yet, you can afford to wait for a better spot.

The blinds are on me next hand, if the blinds go through me, I have 3 BBs left... this is the reason I push here. It's a difficult spot but I still dont see why I must fold here.


Our stack size dictates a push with 45o. You dont want to have to call a push over from the BB with this hand, so its all about maximising our FE. Doing everything we can to get BB to fold. If he calls and loses he's in pretty bad shape, so he should only call here with very strong hands, especially on the bubble. In the rare case he does call, at least 45o should give us 2 live cards as well as straight possibilities.Ok I can buy that...

[bjsaust]

One thing you'll find as you play more SnGs, things are rarely as dire as they seem. You really can wait here. Also you'll find in SnGs it works better to think in terms of BBs rather than M.

[jdubs]

probably, I've just got the M thing embedded in my brain...lol

[jdubs]

getting back to the 1st hand, doesnt 5 BBs give me alot more more FE than 3 BBs ( If I fold , and the blinds go through me)? I'm still not convinced......If I fold here, I have to push with zero chance of stealing the blinds, at least with 5 BBs I have a better chance, and A2o, weak as it is, is still an above average hand.

[DetroitHusling101]

Hand 1 I fold but in this spot at 100/200 with say 5-7bb i will sometimes make clear -ev pushes for the reasons your saying but Arag just fares so crappy vs calling ranges that its not one of them. I might push something like a smaller PP here (like 44-55) which is prob a small amount -EV but wiz does not take into account eating the blinds the next hand so i don't really mind taking a small -ev spot.

[bjsaust]

Your FE will suck if you eat the blinds, but sometimes people play their cards. Heres the thing:

1) You might have it folded to you in the BB
2) You might have it folded to you in the SB and push ATC with fair FE.
3) You then get another 3 hands (if you didnt already) to pick up a better pushing hand.

With ante's its not quite as rosy, but atm you've still got some time.

[jdubs]

Hand 1 I fold but in this spot at 100/200 with say 5-7bb i will sometimes make clear -ev pushes for the reasons your saying but Arag just fares so crappy vs calling ranges that its not one of them. I might push something like a smaller PP here (like 44-55) which is prob a small amount -EV but wiz does not take into account eating the blinds the next hand so i don't really mind taking a small -ev spot.

yeah I'm thinking pretty much ATC i push here actually- with blinds eating me next hand.

[bjsaust]

A2o, weak as it is, is still an above average hand.

Its an above average hand v's ATC, but against their calling range its:

- A big dog v's Ax
- A fair dog v's PPs.

If they call a bit wider with say KJ+, QJ then you'll have some hands where you're favorite, but still v's the majority of their calling range you go in as the underdog.

[jdubs]

Your FE will suck if you eat the blinds, but sometimes people play their cards. Heres the thing:

1) You might have it folded to you in the BB
2) You might have it folded to you in the SB and push ATC with fair FE.
3) You then get another 3 hands (if you didnt already) to pick up a better pushing hand.

With ante's its not quite as rosy, but atm you've still got some time.

this is a good point, I may very well have the chance to steal from the blinds with some FE still. Pushing too soon may be a leak of mine, I'm not sure.