Lessons 4 Noobs

[Robb]

I've been reading dozens of threads this week and replying to a few. And I've played some 12-tabling NL10. Which prompted some thoughts I felt might help newbies:

1. Not every HH and strategy post here is appropriate to the level at which you play.

Microstakes are filled with donk-fish who's play is barely rational enough to qualify as mammalian. They bet their "good" hands (whatever they think that is) and fold the bad ones - except when they feel lucky. FPS (fancy-play syndrome) is silly down here. Don't read a thread from an NL200 hand and try to emulate FTR's accepted hero line. Whatever it is, it probably won't work as well at NL2 as it will at NL200.

2. Not everyone you play against is a donk-fish.

Three months ago, I stalked this 8/2/1.1 ubernit, winning 5 BI from him in a couple thousands hands we played against each other. He disappeared for a while, then reappeared. I was 12-tabling, saw his name, and fired a cbet into a flop I just KNEW he'd fold, and got called. He showed down KJ, and I about fell out of my chair. I checked his stats (my HUD is set to display only last 900 hands villain has played at that level). He's now playing 22/12/2.5. And he's decent. I used to target him, and now I often duck his action.

But it's scarier than that - he's improving. Hell, maybe he's joined FTR and is benefitting from my own damn posts. And now he's playing NL25.

My point? When you make notes, put in a date. If the note is more than 2 months old, don't treat it as gospel. Erase old notes and make new ones. Don't believe this game is static - it changes every week. Not much, but it changes. Be ahead of it. When you glance at the HUD, keep an open mind.

3. Experience is the only way to learn poker.

The forums here are filled with people who are unhappy at the level they're playing, and wish they were playing NL200+. Happy up. Enjoy the ride. Plan on playing 100k hands before even thinking you're not a newbie any more. I'm at about 90k hands lifetime, so I'm just about ready to call myself a beginner instead of a newbie. Maybe at 250k hands lifetime, I'll think of myself as an intermediate player. The people who post the best threads and make the most $$ here at FTR - and think about this - most of them have played far more than a million hands of poker.

Edit: no one's replied, and I thought of two more things.

4. Don't change too many things about you're game at once.

Change one small thing at a time, and play 1k hands minimum before working on something else. You get confused about what's working if you try 5 new things at once.

5. Don't worry about your own PT stats too much.

I've seen some newbies posting about "what should my stats be"? Especially at microstakes, a lot of styles work. The villains suck so bad that you're opening range can vary from VPIP's of 25 to 5. And you can win. Now, I don't think everywhere in that range is equally profitable, but that's not the point. Some people think passive play is great for microstakes, and win lots of money that way (a minority, but they exist).

Don't spend your life worried about PT stats. Worry about having a set style of play that wins you money over 10k hands + . Try to be aggressive (betting/raising hands that are good, folding crap, calling rarely and with good reason). Start off tight to keep the number of different types of hands you deal with small. Learn to play them well. But don't look at a thread on FTR's operations forum where hero is playing NL200 and think you have to have their stats to win. You don't. You have learn to play hands in your style to max EV. Keep it simple. Learn by experience what works for you.

[GatorJH]

Great post Robb. I especially liked #'s 4 and 5. People that sit down at the table and think they are going to work on "starting hand selections, bubble aggression, blind play, post flop play, etc. will end up thinking WAY too much and will not be able to study their opponents enough.

Secondly, people that worry about their PT stats end up playing a different game than they are comfortable with "just to get to a stat level". If you play YOUR game the stats will take care of themselves.

[ProZachNation]

I need to spend a lot less time look at my ptbb/100 when I play and just play and then call it a day not change my session time because I am running bad or well.

I would argue to #4 that for a beginner player playing tight preflop is better, it tends to make your decisions easier post flop, and when your post flop play improves then you can widen your preflop range. And if you do open up your PF range you will have more variance as well.

[Robb]

I need to spend a lot less time look at my ptbb/100 when I play and just play and then call it a day not change my session time because I am running bad or well.

Me too. I have my own table win/loss color coded, and I tend to use the overall up/down to stay longer when I'm way ahead or quit earlier when I'm way behind. But if I'm playing good poker...and the tables' are decent...why worry? It's all one big poker game, right?

I would argue to #4 that for a beginner player playing tight preflop is better, it tends to make your decisions easier post flop, and when your post flop play improves then you can widen your preflop range. And if you do open up your PF range you will have more variance as well.

Do you mean #5? My #4 was not to change too many things at once. I think the statement I made you're most likely referring to is "The villains suck so bad that you're opening range can vary from VPIP's of 25 to 5. "

Remember, I didn't specify 6-max or FR. Against a weak-tight 6-max table (look on Absolute NL10 if you don't believe such a thing exists!), VP$P ~ 25% can be effective, even for a total noob, as long as they stay aggressive post flop. I know from experience - it's how I played when I learned to be a winning player, going from $100 initial deposit to $400 in 7 weeks (included a $100 bonus).

I learned a lot not by ignoring advice but realizing that it was all over the map. Some people think VP$P ~ 20 is way too loose. Some people think VP$P ~ 10 is way too tight. So what's a newbie to do? My suggestion is to pick a single style of play, and play each hand well. I too would caution them to stay tight at first (and said so in my post), but what can absolutely KILL you is trying to play someone else's stats.

I've quit worrying too much what most people think of my stats. I'm noobie/beginner. I like how I play. I have 3/4 variations on my main theme, from nitty (10/9) to the loose end of TAGG (20/17), that I use at different types of tables and games, and I didn't learn flexible thinking by aiming a certain range of hands. I learned it through experience, targeting certain villains, attacking where I saw weakness, laying down hands where I felt I was beaten and seeing what lines worked best for me.

I think new players often think there's some magic "range" like 16/12 or something that is the "perfect" range. And that's just nonsense, especially at microstakes where nearly ANY reasonable opening range can win in the long run, with decent post flop play.

BTW, you make an excellent point - learning post flop play is much easier if you're generally ahead when you get there, therefore, play tight pre. I totally agree.

[Ash256]

Awesome stuff Robb

[wesrman]

Great post Robb.
Your articles are some of the best here IMO.
They are always very well thought out, helpfull, and easy for a noob like me to understand.
Thanks a lot.

[Robb]

Thanks for the props.

I just try to be honest about the stupid-ass donk-fish bs that gets me in trouble and about the very few things I happen to do well.

Too bad for my BR that's there is more of the former than the latter

[will641]

on #3, yeah it takes some time to get up to higher stakes. up to 100nl i never spent more then 25k hands at a limit, and typically 20k. 100nl took me a while to get the hang of, but around 55-60k hands i started 200nl, and i feel very comfortable here.

#2, im going to have to disagree w/ you here. 90% +players at micro stakes are bad, and 9% competent, and 1% good. the 1% that are good probably just withdrew all their winnings and are starting over.

honestly i think the best advice anyone can give for players at micro stakes is NEVER EVER EVER slow play. all it does is make you lose money. occasionally it works, but not very likely.

also, i never practiced this, but i know its true. you can play like a nit (10/8) and be a winning player up to 100nl, probably 200nl.

[Robb]

on #3, yeah it takes some time to get up to higher stakes. up to 100nl i never spent more then 25k hands at a limit, and typically 20k. 100nl took me a while to get the hang of, but around 55-60k hands i started 200nl, and i feel very comfortable here.

Good post. Good points.

#2, im going to have to disagree w/ you here. 90% +players at micro stakes are bad, and 9% competent, and 1% good. the 1% that are good probably just withdrew all their winnings and are starting over.

I don't think we disagree. I just got in trouble several times assuming everyone at NL10 was donk-fish, stack-off moron. The 1% good players merit keeping an eye on.

honestly i think the best advice anyone can give for players at micro stakes is NEVER EVER EVER slow play. all it does is make you lose money. occasionally it works, but not very likely.

Excellent point. Virtually every time I've slept with Miss Slow Play, I've woken up hating myself in the morning, ready to chew my own arm off to get away from that coyote ugly bitch.

[ProZachNation]

A general piece of advice I got for 5nl and 10nl is never(well almost) fold TPTK(Im talking AK, AQ, AJ) on a flop(at leats not any thing super silly like one suited or connected)

Sure you might hit a set or two pair here and there, but there is a very very large number of people willing to stack off on a draw or with middle pair or with top pair and no kicker. Which will make up for the times they do have a set or two pair etc.

Unless you have a really good read on the player.

[will641]

A general piece of advice I got for 5nl and 10nl is never(well almost) fold TPTK(Im talking AK, AQ, AJ) on a flop(at leats not any thing super silly like one suited or connected)

if you excercise good pot control you shouldnt ever need to fold it. but also, unless the board is just horrible i stack with TPTK at micro stakes

i actually was testing the Bet Pot script out at some 10nl tables today, and it is amazing how they dont know the meaning of the word adjust. i was 3 betting most hands, raising something like 35%, and still most hands never saw a flop and rarely went to a turn.

[Robb]

Two more thoughts after tonight's action (1.3k hands).

6. Learn when to attack, not just who to attack.

At NL10, I see lots of villains I know I can stack, and I used to get way too loose and aggressive trying to take them on. Tonight I saw a villain with 40/25/1 stats who plays the flop passively. He opens MP and it folds to my AJs on the button. I glance and see ubernits in the blinds. I think for a minute, decide I'm ahead of about half his open-raising range and rr. He calls. Damn. He checks a dry, 9-high flop, and I fire a pot-sized bet after thinking for about 4 seconds. He folds. A buck fifty for the good guys. In just over 1k hands tonight, I made three moves like that, all with solid reads, all with some value behind, all of which worked. And it was half tonight's profit.

Yes, the donks are out there. Yes, they need to be relieved of their stacks. No, I don't have to play crazy-wild to do it.

7. Two pair is both extremely valuable and extremely vulnerable.

I learned the value part first and started betting 2 pr like a fiend. I learned the vulnerable part later. I'm in the BB and get QJo, check after 4 limpers and the SB completing.Flop is QJ2. Yes, I consider T9 likely, among the 5 weak hands out against me. But there are several hundred other combinations likely, too. I fire a pot-sized bet, get 2 callers. I pot the turn (a K), and get a caller. I check the river (it's a 2), and villain checks. He shows K5 for a slightly better two pair, now that the board has paired on the river.

Still, I'm willing to stack off with 2 pair about 70% of the time at NL10, and that's not changing any time soon. I just know that, as of the flop, my hand is pretty much as strong as it will get without a miracle, and there are literally a dozen ways hands that are behind can catch up. So bet 2 pair HARD on the flop and turn. You're not getting any better hands to fold, usually, but you have to make anyone who's behind pay the price to see another card.

[yourfather]

Nice post. One trouble spot I have and I'm sure many new players do, is trying to make stations fold, knowing they are not going to.

Bluffs that should make any decent player lay down his garbage, like A rag on AJK flop often get called down by stations. I'll 3-bet them knowing they have this hand but they cant let it go. Two barreling doesn't work too well with them either.

I need to quickly determine who the stations are and play slightly better holdings and take advantage of it rather than have it be a leak.