$11 KK just push this pre?

[mukaka]

Do you just push this or try to get some value?

Full Tilt Poker, $10 + $1 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 80/160 Blinds, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: 1,885
UTG: 2,565
CO: 1,840
Hero (BTN): 2,840
SB: 4,370

Pre-Flop: (240) K K dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls 160, CO folds, Hero ??

[Im_new]

no, I standard raise.

[taipan168]

Just make it 600-650 to go and see what he does, I think shoving loses value because it folds out hands that you beat that might call your raise.

[mukaka]

Ok I raised less than that is it too wrong?.. what do you do now?
Full Tilt Poker, $10 + $1 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 80/160 Blinds, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: 1,885
UTG: 2,565
CO: 1,840
Hero (BTN): 2,840
SB: 4,370

Pre-Flop: (240) K K dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls 160, CO folds, Hero raises to 480, SB calls 400, BB folds, UTG calls 320

Flop: (1,600) T 7 5 (3 Players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero ??

[humanfugitive]

Push - because you're not folding turn.

[bjsaust]

I make it like 1100 and call a push.

[Im_new]

+1

[mukaka]

I pushed this one.. Bj what do you do at turn if he flat calls? Do you push or call a push regardless of the turn card?

[TLR]

I would also bet 1100-1200

[taipan168]

I would bet 1100-1200 on the flop and get the rest in on the turn regardless of what comes, whether it is a T or a club or whatever.

[humanfugitive]

Why are we raising 1100 here? We'd have around 1300 left after this bet if it gets called, meaning neither us nor hero is folding at a later street. We're certainly getting called by AA QQ JJ TT 77 55, so my question is what this bet is doing that a push doesn't? Is this just to extract from AT and draws?

[taipan168]

Why are we raising 1100 here? We'd have around 1300 left after this bet if it gets called, meaning neither us nor hero is folding at a later street. We're certainly getting called by AA QQ JJ TT 77 55, so my question is what this bet is doing that a push doesn't? Is this just to extract from AT and draws?

Yes, you want to keep Tx and club flush draws in the hand; they might just call a smaller bet but might fold to a push. The other reason is to give these hands a chance to C-R when they think they might have some fold equity but in reality have none.

Besides, I do not give credit to UTG or SB having AA, QQ, JJ or TT given their lines preflop.

[bjsaust]

We're letting people make mistakes by either calling without any kind of pot/implied odds, or making a mistake by 'calling the flop and try to see cheap showdown', or just about any reason they can come up with for flat calling us on the flop. By pushing we maximise our FE, but we have no good reason to want worse hands to fold here (and we sure arnt folding any better hands). We also let people 'push-bluff our obvious c-bet'. Its unlikely, but why not maximise our chance to gain additional value?