To push or not to push

[Eastwood1131]

I am playing a MTT at pokerstars. Number of registered players: 600

Two push or not to push decisions:

Hand 1

Iam shortstacked. My M: 4.6
I am under the gun

Would you push here?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2165013

Same tournament. Last 20 players. Prices rapidly go up from position 15 to 1.

My M: 4.22
The big stack is BB but is rather tight.

Is this a push?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2164903

[chardrian]

Hand 1 - whatever you do has merit.

Hand 2 - 6 handed in the CO, I push.

[Reidak]

id fold both. Much better spots. Id rather shove 34o one off the button than either of those

[mcatdog]

Hand 1 - This is about as close as it gets, I'd push at nitty tables and fold at loose ones.

Hand 2 - Easy push, folding is horrid.

[elipsesjeff]

I'd shove both.

[chardrian]

What does the chart say?

[Eastwood1131]

I looked it up in the directions for push-bot charts by jcm4ccc.
I was at a tight table.

Hand 1:
With 7 players still to act it is +cEV with an M of 2,5 or less. It becomes +cEV with my M when there are 5 or less people to act behind me

Hand 2:
With 3 players yet to act pushing is:
+cEV with M of 8.2 or less at a tight table,
+cEV with M of 6.2 or less at an average table
+cEV with M or 4.4 or less at a loose table

Please correct me if I am reading the charts wrongly.

[mcatdog]

People play better now than they did when jcm4ccc put his chart together. The guys in chardrian's avatar are more in style than that chart is.

What does the chart say?

My chart says shove it (barely though, J8s and T8s are folds), but charts only take you so far. It doesn't just depend on how tight your table is, it also depends on the stack sizes behind you. If you shove 6K UTG then an 8K stack UTG+1 can call you with a decent number of hands, but a 20K stack has to be a lot more careful for obvious reasons. If there are a lot of bigger stacks behind you then you can shove a wider range UTG. Charts don't take these circumstances into account.

That's not to say they're useless, my short stack play has improved a ton since I put my chart together and I use it all the time. I'm sure Jeff would say the same.

[johnny_fish]

I need 1-2bb less to push the first, 2nd is an easy shove.