I suck. Help me not suck so badly

[d0zer]

Self-indulgent history:

My dad taught me to play draw & stud when I was a wee lad, but didn't really play all that much until my friends started playing NLHE donkaments a few years back. I wanted to actually know what I was doing, so I read a few books, then started playing MTTs (mostly the stars 4.40/180). I did fairly well, won a few, but got burned out with the robotic grinding of the MTTs.

Someone suggested I take up the 'more interesting' cash games, and last last year I started donking around 25NL with nowhere near a proper BR. I went from $50 - $150, then started "operation impatience", the goal being to grind up a proper BR for 25NL. I finally did it, then donked away most of it at 100NL and 200NL. Took me all of 7 hands to run into a set over set at 200NL with a BR of $450. The poker gods weren't through with me yet though, as they gave me a FT appearance in a $33 MTT & I luckily managed to restore my lost BR.

Then I decided to actually adhere to something almost resembling proper BR management, grinded 25NL up to $800 where I took a stab at 50NL. After a few times dropping to $700 & moving back down to 25NL I finally managed to crack $1k. I'm currently sitting at $1400 after losing $250 in the last couple days.

I ran about 4PTBB/100 at 25NL, but my 50NL winrate has been shite so far. I swear I've been on a cooler, but to be honest, the bad beats wouldn't be so noticeable if they weren't coupled with stacking off too easily with TPTK/overpairs vs the wrong types of villains. I still feel like I'm relatively new to the cash grinding game -- maybe logged 80k hands in total since I started using PT so I'm sure there are still gigantic holes in my game that are seriously costing me...

I have a feeling it's my postflop game that needs the most work, but I'll post my stats here anyway in case you guys can use them to diagnose my condition:

[d0zer]

Great example of stacking off too easily:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($67.90)
Button ($11.75)
SB ($70.05)
BB ($22)
UTG ($17.35)
UTG+1 ($116.70)
MP1 ($10)
Hero ($54.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, CO calls $2, 3 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($4.75) (2 players)
Hero bets $4, CO raises to $12, Hero calls $8.

River: ($28.75) (2 players)
Hero bets $17.5, CO raises to $53.9 (All-In), Hero calls $22.55 (All-In).

Final Pot: $108.85

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad Kd (one pair, kings).
CO has 4d 4c (straight, seven high).
Outcome: CO wins $122.70.

[daven]

learn to fold QQ pre
I'll take a look through your stats and a few hundred pt hands later.
If you check a flop then c-bet on the brick turn your hand will get called a lot, it screams AK that missed.
The hand you posted. This hand, I don't hate checking the flop. Betting the turn, meh, but fold to the re-raise everytime. The villain is screaming set/straight. You've got a draw, sure, but pot odds? if you're going to bet the turn here then make it a blocking bet, $2.60 is good.
River, either block bet tiny and fold to a big re-raise. Or, check-call a small bet, or check-fold a real bet.

skimmed stats. Your leaks are post-flop.

post more detail tab

a question - are you playing hands thinking in bb or in /100 of your stack. Cos you seem to call bets more freely when you're >100bb deep = could be a leak?

[pgil]

your postflop AF looks huge on all streets. You may be taking weaker hands too far when a pot control line might be best, or might be trying to bluff out better hands too much. something to look at at least.

I have usually found that trying to fold losing hands 1 street earlier helps a lot when I am on a bit of a bad/breakeven run.

[d0zer]

You may be taking weaker hands too far when a pot control line might be best, or might be trying to bluff out better hands too much.

quite possibly...when I've been card dead for a long time I'm most guilty of this...

[d0zer]

post more detail tab

a question - are you playing hands thinking in bb or in /100 of your stack. Cos you seem to call bets more freely when you're >100bb deep = could be a leak?

Yeah I think you're bang on with that hand...I shoulda bet flop, then folded turn to resistance.

I think almost always in terms of $$ relative to pot size & the associated pot / implied odds. The latter is probably why I'm calling looser when the stacks are deep.

After reading spoon's "ask me" thread, I think my biggest problem is not thinking hard enough about villain's preflop range, then narrowing that range down based on post-flop actions. That hand I posted earlier is a great example. Villain's turn re-raise just screamed strength, and I shouldn't have gotten overly excited when the K fell on the river. I wasn't "present" enough, and was just thinking on level0 really.

I've also been getting a little too fancy maybe -- I probably have made too many modifications to my ABC tagg game that worked at 25NL for me when I switched to 50NL.

I think I'm somewhat back on track now, but here's my more detail tabs anyway -- any suggestions or blatant leaks in my post-flop game would be...well...nice to know about

[Fnord]

Although that AK hand is really retarded, I'll bet that big pots and your stack off standard is far from your biggest problem.

[BankItDrew]

I agree with daven here...

I see no glaring preflop weaknesses, so it must be postflop. The most common big mistakes postflop are what he mentioned - bluffing too often, calling with weaker hands too often and too far... etc.

Have you heard about the Thursday night games in Orangeville? Today my brother told me that there's a group that holds poker games at some hall in Odot Thursday nights beginning in April. Something about no rake and 1/2 cash games.

Any idea? I'm thinking of trying it out if you're interested in linking up. Any updates on the casino trip for early April?

Drew

[allabout]

Something else you may want to work on, which may or may not be a big problem, is getting your pfr and vpip a little closer together. Being 16/11 tells me you probably are calling too many hands to a raise. For instance, someone raises in front of you, you have AQ or AJs, do you call? I would guess you do. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems like a little too wide of a margin. I bet if you ran like 14/12, or 16/14 you'd do a lot better. Good luck!

[jimmy44]

Your Post Flop stats seems like my 100NL stats
In sites where normally you have more calling station (i.e. ongame where I play) an aggressive post flop is more suited. However, I would believe that in sites like Stars where the play is more tight, I believe that you need maybe to lower you postflop aggression.
An advice I would give you (from the hand you showed) is that you could try to fold marginal hands more on the flop (i.e. second pair, Top Pair No Kicker, gutshot or low FD in paired board). Calling marginal hands against 2+ opps is -EV, unless you have very good reads on villains.

[d0zer]

Although that AK hand is really retarded, I'll bet that big pots and your stack off standard is far from your biggest problem.

One thing I've started doing more is looking at villain's 'fold to flop bet' / 'bet flop' % immediately before entering the flop with them.

I've stacked off too easily with TPTK / overpairs to villains who run like 20/5 and fold to flop bet 80% & bet the other 20% when they check-raise me on the flop & I can't let jacks/AT go on a ten high board.

Yeah that AK hand was retarded. I've changed my standard missed AK line to lead/shutdown.

So what do YOU think is my biggest problem?

Something else you may want to work on, which may or may not be a big problem, is getting your pfr and vpip a little closer together. Being 16/11 tells me you probably are calling too many hands to a raise. For instance, someone raises in front of you, you have AQ or AJs, do you call? I would guess you do. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems like a little too wide of a margin. I bet if you ran like 14/12, or 16/14 you'd do a lot better. Good luck!

I fold AQ/AJ to a PFR except from LAGGY short stacks.

my 5% limp is:
Axs / SC in LP with 3+limpers
low PPs in EP/MP with a limper behind...though I've started raise/folding these more which is getting my PFR% up more.

Sometimes I'll call AJs/AQs from the SB/BB if it's going to be a 4 way+ raised pot and there's at least two bigstacks in. But that's a non-standard move for me.

[d0zer]

Your Post Flop stats seems like my 100NL stats
In sites where normally you have more calling station (i.e. ongame where I play) an aggressive post flop is more suited. However, I would believe that in sites like Stars where the play is more tight, I believe that you need maybe to lower you postflop aggression.
An advice I would give you (from the hand you showed) is that you could try to fold marginal hands more on the flop (i.e. second pair, Top Pair No Kicker, gutshot or low FD in paired board). Calling marginal hands against 2+ opps is -EV, unless you have very good reads on villains.

I almost never continue on the flop facing a 1/2pot+ lead without TPGK. The only time I'll chase a gutshot pretty much is to a minbet in a raised pot. I almost never get fancy in multi-ways anymore. bet/raise or fold.

I just moved to ultimate, and the tables are definitely looser than FT/PS. I almost never join a table with less than 20BB avg pot size & 30%+ seeing flop, which were far more rare at FT. My winrate over about 4k hands is about 5ptbb which is nice to see after getting so pwnd at FT...

[d0zer]

I agree with daven here...

I see no glaring preflop weaknesses, so it must be postflop. The most common big mistakes postflop are what he mentioned - bluffing too often, calling with weaker hands too often and too far... etc.

Have you heard about the Thursday night games in Orangeville? Today my brother told me that there's a group that holds poker games at some hall in Odot Thursday nights beginning in April. Something about no rake and 1/2 cash games.

Any idea? I'm thinking of trying it out if you're interested in linking up. Any updates on the casino trip for early April?

Drew

Aside from my standard c-betting, I don't bluff much anymore, but still do get burned every now and then...

I haven't heard about said games in the 'o-dot', but lemme know if you go -- I could be down for some live hijinx.

Casino trip got bumped to end of april -- I'll keep you posted when I get a specific date...

[Ltrain]

How do your stats at NL50 compare to your stats at NL25? Even though you are rolled to move up, you may be playing differently because in your mind, the loss for 100bbs is double what you are used to. If your stats differ, try buying in for $30 and concentrate on playing your same game. This may also help give you more time to adjust your post flop leaks at the higher level.

[d0zer]

How do your stats at NL50 compare to your stats at NL25? Even though you are rolled to move up, you may be playing differently because in your mind, the loss for 100bbs is double what you are used to. If your stats differ, try buying in for $30 and concentrate on playing your same game. This may also help give you more time to adjust your post flop leaks at the higher level.

I actually loosened up a bit...from 15/10 to 16/11. Other than that, my postflop aggression is fairly similar.

[Unibomber14]

How often are you c-betting. Is it less than your 25nl stats? It seems that you check a good percentage of flops after raising preflop. I think that a checking less, and betting/raising more on the flop might help.

Thoughts?

[edit] Your aggro factor is really high though. Maybe I am reading the stats wrong.

[d0zer]

How often are you c-betting. Is it less than your 25nl stats? It seems that you check a good percentage of flops after raising preflop. I think that a checking less, and betting/raising more on the flop might help.

Thoughts?

[edit] Your aggro factor is really high though. Maybe I am reading the stats wrong.

I c-bet in position when checked to with an almost robot-like consistency. Headsup anyway. 3-way+ I usually won't. OOP I often will pussy out, but I'm starting to c-bet more OOP especially if the flop looks like it hit my range and I'm vs a villain who looks like the type who would only call a PFR to sethunt.

[martindcx1e]

OOP I often will pussy out, but I'm starting to c-bet more OOP especially if the flop looks like it hit my range and I'm vs a villain who looks like the type who would only call a PFR to sethunt.

vs people who aren't known calling stations just cbet all flops (HU i mean) containing 1-2 paint cards, any flop containing 3 cards 7 or lower, any flop containing disconnected cards and any flop which hit you. that's from sauce's 6max guide, and it is really good advice.

also, how often are you raising behind limpers? for example, if you are on the HJ/CO/BTN and there's 1 unknown limper, what is your raising range?

[d0zer]

OOP I often will pussy out, but I'm starting to c-bet more OOP especially if the flop looks like it hit my range and I'm vs a villain who looks like the type who would only call a PFR to sethunt.

vs people who aren't known calling stations just cbet all flops (HU i mean) containing 1-2 paint cards, any flop containing 3 cards 7 or lower, any flop containing disconnected cards and any flop which hit you. that's from sauce's 6max guide, and it is really good advice.

also, how often are you raising behind limpers? for example, if you are on the HJ/CO/BTN and there's 1 unknown limper, what is your raising range?

HmMmm...ok I'll start c-betting more regularly OOP. I hate doing that vs stations when there's paint cards cause they're so often calling a PFR with hands like KJ/QT/J9 & they will float mid pair.

I'm curious about the "any flop containing 3 cards 7 or lower" part. Seems vs sethunters that flop hits their low PPs fairly well. Or are we just going on the assumption that 7/8 times their sethunting misses so just bet?

Raising behind 1-2 limpers...on the BU/CO I'll raise Axs, JTo+, 22+. low SCs I'll raise with 1 limper, but usually don't have the ballz to vs 2+ and will often just limp along. 3+ limpers I'll often limp along with most of those hands. HJ I trim that range down a bit, but will often still raise Axs & 22+ with a limper or two.

[martindcx1e]

HmMmm...ok I'll start c-betting more regularly OOP. I hate doing that vs stations when there's paint cards cause they're so often calling a PFR with hands like KJ/QT/J9 & they will float mid pair.

ya if someone is known not to fold to cbets hardly ever then just stop doing vs them w/o a real hand (if they give you too much trouble then just find another table).

I'm curious about the "any flop containing 3 cards 7 or lower" part. Seems vs sethunters that flop hits their low PPs fairly well. Or are we just going on the assumption that 7/8 times their sethunting misses so just bet?

it's been quite a while since i played full ring, but i think you may be overestimating how often people are just set hunting.

Raising behind 1-2 limpers...on the BU/CO I'll raise Axs, JTo+, 22+

i also like to throw in Kxs and Qxs especially vs just 1 limper.

[martindcx1e]

also dozer are you able to easily recognize when you are in a WA/WB situation where you shouldn't bet/raise?

[d0zer]

also dozer are you able to easily recognize when you are in a WA/WB situation where you shouldn't bet/raise?

Like in a raised pot when you're holding QQ/JJ and there's a king on the board?

Yeah I usually c/c 1 or 2 streets (depending on how aggro villain is) in that situation.

What about AJ on a AT2 board vs a TAGG in a raised pot? What other WA/WB situations should I be watching for?

[brewer]

Swings can go on seemingly forever, I was running at 2PTBB/100 for about 20,000 hands, then on a good run moved up to 8.