exploiting guys who "raise to see where they're at"

[mcatdog]

I played a $550 live donkament this weekend and in general people played pretty bad, but not in the way I was expecting them to. The worst mistake I saw people making consistently was raising flops "to see where they're at." In fact, since most people at this casino just call a c-bet if they flop a really huge hand, I'd say that the vast majority of the time people raise a flop they fold to a 3-bet.

Example 1: One of the first hands of the tournament I raised AJo to 200 with 25/50 blinds and 4K stacks, Button called, flop was AJ9 with a flush draw, I bet 300, Button minraised to 600, I made it 2K and he folded after a little thought.

Example 2: At 50-100, 6-way limped pot (which wasn't at all common), A45 flop with a flush draw, UTG fish bets 300, MP guy who says he plays live donkaments "for a living" raises to 1K, UTG makes it 2K, MP folds AJo faceup and UTG shows 45s.

Example 3: Fish limps from EP at 25/50, young Asian guy makes it 300, everyone folds to fish who calls. T85 rainbow flop fish leads out for pot, guy raises to 1500, fish insta-shoves and Asian guy tanks and folds.

Example 4: This is from a cash game I played at the same casino awhile ago: link. A guy c/red me with some marginal hand, I called him down with top pair and won almost a full stack off of him but I'm guessing he would have folded to a flop 3-bet.

Sorry for the long post I just thought it'd be helpful to give some examples. I think it applies to both cash games and donkaments at this level (maybe 2-5 and 5-10 NL, 500 and 1K donkaments). Anyway, what do you guys think is the best way to beat this type of player for the max? Clearly we should be jamming any decent draw on the flop because we have huge fold equity, and there's also usually not much value in jamming TP-type hands because they're folding worse hands, and they probably suck at playing turns anyway so it'd be cool to a see a turn with them when I likely have the best hand. Any comments on how my pre-flop hand selection should be influenced when I'm at this type of table?

[mcatdog]

Well this thread was an epic fail. Let me try to do a less horrible job of asking questions.

Say you're in middle or late position and it's folded to you, stacks are reasonably deep (50 BB+) cash or donkament, doesn't matter. What hands are you raising with if the people behind you are loose passive players with no clue? How are you changing your starting hand requirements vs. people who are a little tighter and have some kind of a clue, but who like to raise the flop "to see where they're at?"

[Fnord]

This applies to some cash game players, however many are pretty passive because it's not play money they're working with.

[MuddyWicket]

I've noticed this a lot with Players who like to steal a lot and therefor when you bet with a hand they apply their same mentality to yourself and pretty much assume you are 'fibbing' with your bet and can be pushed off the hand easily. Its wierd becuase I've noticed this a lot at microstakes but I think I should respect this move more from the tighter players.

Quite often if they have started betting back at you they can't stop even with nothing so I let them keep fireing at me if they are that bad and my hand has showdown value. Reraising these hands just means I'm in a big pot with a medium hand which I'm not a fan off. drawing hands are more fun to come back over at em.

Preflop selection: I've heard people say you should play more tpgk hands. Not sure what that is but I've assumed more braodways like KT etc.

[Fnord]

Paranoia is the trademark of a really bad LAgg.

[brewer]

It goes back to Caro. Weak players play their hands backwards. If you find people like that, you're going to take all their money.