Moving up a level - observations

[ponyboy]

Recently moved from one microstakes level to the next due to good results at the lower level (70% ITM) and things definitely changed.

However, I'm noticing that basically the only major change is that people rock up more at the beginning, and a SNG that used to have 5 people gone by the time Level 6 rolled around might have 8 people left. I also find I'm dealing a lot more with blind stealing (me doing it and others doing it to me) when the levels go up.

My biggest leak right now (if it's a leak) is bubbling out because I find I'm getting into the final 4 players with a lower stack because I'm too tight in early levels. This tagg play always did well at the lower level but isn't doing so much here. Any way to counteract this? I'm trying to guage my play to the table, if they are tight I play loose and if they are loose I play tight but loose play feels very strange.

[GatorJH]

what level did you move up to? Unless things have changed dramatically I could play pretty damn TAGGY in the early rounds all the way up through the $11 SNG's.

Now you certainly can't expect a 70% ITM playing that way as you move up, but should be able to maintain around 50% till you get to the mid stakes.

You may want to post one of your bubble tourney's and let us take a look at it.

[CoccoBill]

What sample size is the 70% ITM?

Loosening up early in low stakes SNGs is possibly the biggest mistake you can make. Do you have SNGWiz/SNGPT? Get one of those and review your tournies, you're probably missing some +EV spots late in the game.

[bluedevil907]

I've been out of it for a while, but without a doubt list the level change, as that has a huge impact on the difficulty level.

If you're dealing with aggressive tables you DO NOT want to play back into their aggression, you will just lose your stack even faster. Sure, you can pick a few spots and take down some pots, but do not switch to their game. Relax, pick up a hand, and let them bet their stack off to you.

As far as blind steals go, depending on your M and if someone is stealing repeatedly you can go over the top to take down a nice pot. It is ESSENTIAL that your read is good on the player because you can either pull the move with any two cards OR you shouldn't be trying this at all.

As far as bubbling, just fire up SNGPT or WIZ and look for +EV spots you're missing. Once again, it sounds like you're dealing with more varied opponents so you need to try and figure out their calling ranges when you get to push/fold mode.

[bjsaust]

This is pretty much standard. Getting to the bubble with a bigstack will be the exception, not the norm. Knowing solid p/f poker is your key now.

[Stacks]

This is pretty much standard. Getting to the bubble with a bigstack will be the exception, not the norm. Knowing solid p/f poker is your key now.

QFT.

Since we are playing tight in the early portion of the SNG unless we get a premium hand we generally get to the later rounds of the SNG without having won a sizeable pot (and sometimes any pot at all). Nothing to worry about at all. As long as you aren't bleeding chips early by playing loose and if you don't take a bad beat, at the micro stakes you can make it to the 50/100 blind level pretty easily. (In fact if you fold every hand you will have probably 1200-1300 at this level, I believe), which is not a bad stack at all.

Just make sure your push/fold game is on point and you won't be hurting in this situation at all.

[Stacks]

Oh yeah. After you post what level your moving to, it would probably be in your best interest to also post a tourney or two at that new level for review. That's easily one of the most effective ways to grow as a SNG player.

[ponyboy]

Thanks for all the replies. This is very low stakes movement, I'm talking moving from a 0.10 SNG (sample size 240, ITM 70%) to a $1 SNG level.

I had a good epiphany last night while playing one. The table was rock tight from the beginning (people actually folding to blinds in L1) so I actually shifted gears and loosened up. I was getting no cards but still managed to steal some pots with well timed raises until it got to 4 players and then they caught on and started pushing back.

I just need to get more comfortable with tagg play at this level because part of it is mental - higher stakes mean more bankroll therefore mentally it can be tougher to hit the call button. I'm playing with 100 buyins so I should be fine.

Had a 2nd and a 3rd yesterday and got busted on the bubble in another, next time I'm going to try to post history to get some real feedback. I also started taking notes on my opponents during early rounds, which helped in a couple of instances. I really appreciate the feedback.

[bluedevil907]

Thanks for all the replies. This is very low stakes movement, I'm talking moving from a 0.10 SNG (sample size 240, ITM 70%) to a $1 SNG level.

$.10 SNGs? Those exist? Who runs them?

Assuming no typos, $1 should be very soft. I'm on the $3.40 turbos and next to no one understands position, value, their own cards, etc. I'm by no means great but with ABC poker and adjusting to table aggression, I'm blasting them pretty easily.

I sort of looked through some of your other posts to get an idea for your play background and it's clear you just need to really hammer down the fundamentals. Get ABC on lock and you should have no problem with the $1s.

[Stacks]

If you were playing a solid SNG game at the .10c SNGs then you will need to make basically no change at all to play the $1 SNGs. I'm playing the $5.50s on Stars and am about to move to the $11 soon. Moving from the $1 to 5.50s I changed basically nothing about my game, as the players are still incredibly bad (they just have more to money to lose).

It's great that you were able to shift gears and play from a style your not quite accustomed to, but I highly suggest that this be the exception and only in extreme cases in the early stages of a SNG (which to be honest, probably should never arise at the microstakes. At least I haven't seen a reason to warrant it really).

I'll assume your playing at Full Tilt, because i believe they are the site that runs the .10c SNGs. I have never played Full Tilt for real money, but I just do not see a microstakes SNG being tight/passive in the early stages being the norm. Even at the 5.50s, by 50/100 blinds (Level IV), there is generally only 5-6 players remaining. From what you are saying, it seems to me that you are maybe playing too loose to begin with and it seems like everyone is a stone cold rock because your are playing a wider range. That's not what you want.

Yes, it's pretty common knowledge that the best way to play at any given table is opposite how the table is playing. If the table is loose, play tight so when you do enter a hand you are well ahead of their average range and will get paid by their foolish second best hands. If they are tight, play loose and scoop small pots when they aren't willing to play back. HOWEVER, as stated, I highly doubt at microstakes SNGs they are playing tight in the early stages, which means you do need to play tight.

In SNGs, your stack size (as well as your opponents) should generally determine how tight/loose you should be playing. In tournament play (SNG included) the chips you lose are more important than the chips you win. Meaning the chance of doubling early with a marginal hand (such as taking an expected coinflip) is not worth the chance of you losing that flip and busting out. By playing tight, and only entering with solid value, you not only limit the amount of tough decisions you have to make, but you also decrease your chances of going bust.

If you want to crush (maybe rape is a better word) the $1 SNGs, simple ABC SNG style poker will do it for you. Don't get FPS (fancy play sydrome) at these stakes, because you will go busto more often than not. What you need to do is play tight early on (generally till blinds 50/100 on Stars, because that's when the blinds become a significant portion of your stack and are worth stealing). If you need help understanding what we mean by tight here, then we can explain that as well. But as the blinds grow and your stack decreases (as it probably will unless you get a good hand because you will play fairly few hands early on), then you will become looser, and generally go into push/fold mode and steal, steal, steal. But ONLY when the situation warrants it.

If you want to get a better grasp of SNGs and plug a few leaks, you have a few options (I consider doing all 3). (1) Trim and post a few of your next SNGs (2) Download the trial version of SNGWIZ and run all your SNGs through it to see if your missing valuable ev in late game play and (3) look over some better players SNG and see if you would have made the same plays.

Good luck.

[Stacks]

(people actually folding to blinds in L1)

This worries me a little bit. It seems like you are saying it's crazy for people to fold to just the regular blind, instead of limping it and seeing the flop. If that is in fact what you mean, then you have a ways to go. You should be folding to blinds in L1, unless you have a solid hand. If you think "oh well. THe blind is only 20 and I have 1500 chips, I can stack to see if my 96s here will hit, so I'll limp UTG", then you are bleeding some serious chips away. Because the blinds are so small and your chip stack so large at the early stages of a SNG, this actually warrants just the opposite. You are in no need to win pots because you have plenty chips for the blinds, so you play tight.

It's simple. The smaller the blinds the tighter you play. The larger the blinds, the looser you become. This doesn't mean from 10/20 to 15/30 you need to loosen up. It needs to be an increase that puts your stack at jeopardy. At 10/20 with 1300 stack you have 65bbs. That's alot. However, at 50/100 and 1300 stack, you only have 13, which isn't bad, but is significantly less. So with 13bbs you need to loosen up and look to get it in as a favorite, or steal some pots (because per steal you win 150 chips which is a good percentage of your stack). But with 65bbs you just continue playing tight looking for a premium hand.

I'm playing with 100 buyins so I should be fine

Like you said, you have 100 buyins so you should be fine. That's more than enough that you shouldn't play scared money. With your $100 BR you could actually stand to play $5.50s if you were solidly beating the $1 SNGS. I suggest you don't play 5.50s yet as you are still adjusting to the $1.

[ponyboy]

[quote="XxStacksxX"]

(people actually folding to blinds in L1)

This worries me a little bit. It seems like you are saying it's crazy for people to fold to just the regular blind, instead of limping it and seeing the flop. If that is in fact what you mean, then you have a ways to go. You should be folding to blinds in L1, unless you have a solid hand. If you think "oh well. THe blind is only 20 and I have 1500 chips, I can stack to see if my 96s here will hit, so I'll limp UTG", then you are bleeding some serious chips away. Because the blinds are so small and your chip stack so large at the early stages of a SNG, this actually warrants just the opposite. You are in no need to win pots because you have plenty chips for the blinds, so you play tight.

I know this - what I meant is that it is really unusual in a microstakes tourney to not see at least 2-3 limpers preflop. I'm playing at Golden Riviera and for some reason people seem very tight. I don't limp at all, in fact normally I take 2-3 rounds just to observe what others are doing and take notes before I really start to play unless I land a premium starting hand. In the last few tournies I've played we made it to Level 5 with nobody knocked out, and even with one made it to Level 8 with 7 people left. Maybe I should just move to a fishier site!

Could also be I'm just having a bad run because I'm so used to placing ITM and now I'm so far 3/11 ITM at this level with most of the rest being 4ths and 5ths. I just want to find whatever leak I have and plug it to start getting back up again. I'll try to post my next one and see what you guys think.

[ponyboy]

[quote="XxStacksxX"]

(people actually folding to blinds in L1)

This worries me a little bit. It seems like you are saying it's crazy for people to fold to just the regular blind, instead of limping it and seeing the flop. If that is in fact what you mean, then you have a ways to go. You should be folding to blinds in L1, unless you have a solid hand. If you think "oh well. THe blind is only 20 and I have 1500 chips, I can stack to see if my 96s here will hit, so I'll limp UTG", then you are bleeding some serious chips away. Because the blinds are so small and your chip stack so large at the early stages of a SNG, this actually warrants just the opposite. You are in no need to win pots because you have plenty chips for the blinds, so you play tight.

I know this - what I meant is that it is really unusual in a microstakes tourney to not see at least 2-3 limpers preflop. I'm playing at Golden Riviera and for some reason people seem very tight. I don't limp at all, in fact normally I take 2-3 rounds just to observe what others are doing and take notes before I really start to play unless I land a premium starting hand. In the last few tournies I've played we made it to Level 5 with nobody knocked out, and even with one made it to Level 8 with 7 people left. Maybe I should just move to a fishier site!

Could also be I'm just having a bad run because I'm so used to placing ITM and now I'm so far 3/11 ITM at this level with most of the rest being 4ths and 5ths. I just want to find whatever leak I have and plug it to start getting back up again. I'll try to post my next one and see what you guys think.

[bjsaust]

God, if this was standard at the $1 level I'd probably find a new site. I didnt see that very often until the $22s on stars and FT.

I'd adjust by raising wider, but still probably not until level 3 or so, but if they're gonna give you free blinds, why not take them. What you dont want is to pick up tiny blinds cheap then have them play back when they're more worth it later, so be somewhat choosy.