FTP's new "Super Turbo" SnG's

[Stackumz]

Anyone else here been playing the new "Super Turbo" SnG's on FTP?

I believe they only have low stake tourneys ($3.50 & $7) right now, and I assume they won't bother adding any higher buy-ins considering their structure (300 chips starting, 3 minute blind levels!).

I was just curious if anyone else has tried them out, and if so, what your thoughts are on them (strategy, etc.). I've been playing them for a few days now and am making a little money, but I still can't decide if they are worthwhile in the long-term or not.

[CTorode]

I've seen these as well. Due to the starting chips and blind structure the only reasonable strategy is push/fold preflop. Anything else is leaking chips IMO.

I would say if you have a solid push/fold game there is some money to be made here, because at least at the low stakes, nobody appears to know what they are doing.

[taipan168]

Haven't played any of these (but maybe I'll give them a go for fun) but CTorode is right, the ONLY strategy you need is push/fold.

I suspect the games will be like the old Party SNGs before the UIGEA (ie. soft where nobody knows what the hell they are doing).

[TheScientist23]

After reading this thread, I went to play a couple to see what they are like. I played 4 of the $3.50 + $0.30 (Not at the same time, just back to back)

Here's how I did:

8/9 - Won $0.00
5/9 - Won $0.00
2/9 - Won $9.45
1/9 - Won $15.75

In the first hand of the 3rd one, I doubled up with A-9s vs J-J and spiked trip Aces on the flop. Hell yea.

In the 4th one, I tripled up in the first hand with A-9o vs A-Qo and K-Qs when I floppped trip 9's and ended up with a full house, 9's and 4's. In the second hand of this one, I took out another person with A-Qo vs K-Qs. After 2 hands I had more than 4x the amount of chips anyone else had and it was already down to 6 people! I continued to get VERY lucky throughout this game, which is weird because yesterday and today have been my 2 unluckiest days in a long time.

Anyway, I'm going to steer clear of these from now on. I made $10, but it was because I got incredibly lucky. My bankroll couldn't handle the variance in these things. I shouldn't have even played more than 1 or 2 (I'm glad I did though!) because I only have like $110 in my BR and at 3.80 each, I just don't think I would win enough on a consistent basis to be able to play these regularly.

[CTorode]

Yeah, I would say because of the swings, you would need probably 50+ buyins to keep variance at bay. These could potentially be incredibly profitable though, so once my BR hits like $2oo I might try to grind these and see where I go.

[TheScientist23]

Yeah, I might give them another swing once I get a bigger bankroll too. They are super fast so if you get good at them, your winrate/hour would skyrocket.

[Dude_Here]

I jumped into one the other day also b/c the 2.25's were slow filling up. I clocked a first but it felt very lucky. Oddly enough my table played fairly well w/ decent push/fold poker going on.

[TheScientist23]

Yea I feel like when I win it is just luck. I wish I had the extra money to try an experiment. I want to see if I could just check/fold all hands (except A-A, K-K, Q-Q, and A-K) and still make it to the money. People get out REALLY fast in these things so over a long stretch you might be able to make money just from folding all hands and letting other people get out.

[CTorode]

Yea I feel like when I win it is just luck. I wish I had the extra money to try an experiment. I want to see if I could just check/fold all hands (except A-A, K-K, Q-Q, and A-K) and still make it to the money. People get out REALLY fast in these things so over a long stretch you might be able to make money just from folding all hands and letting other people get out.

I don't like this at all. You have to really play to win these things to make any large profit. I don't want to click "sit out" on my way to $.40 an hour.

[TheScientist23]

I wasn't actually going to try it... just wondering aloud. Even if it was proven to be profitable, I still wouldn't do it.

Don't worry, I'm not that cheap haha

[CTorode]

It is kind of an interesting idea though...I might try it sometime in the distant future when it wouldnt affect my BR to do so.

On an unrelated note, I was 4-tabling those earlier, cashed in 4 out of 8 for a 3rd, 1st, 1st, and 1st.... HUGE BR boost!

However, I'm going to spend a little more time at the $2.25 turbos before I start grinding these for my BR, I feel the variance might still be a little large...

[taipan168]

I played some of these tonight ($7.50s) whilst the Stars server restart was on. They were fun - the players were generally TERRIBLE, full of limptards/calltards who had no idea how to play a shortstack whatsoever. Considering that you start with 10x BB there really is only one move!

That said, I can imagine that the variance in these could be pretty bad because the whole tourney might come down to folding every hand then needing to win a flip/running into a big hand with a SB vs BB shove.

However, if you would like some practice with your ICM shove/fold game then you could do worse than play a few of these. Just expect to be limp/called with the most bizarre range of hands...

[TheScientist23]

Ok, so I spend an hour or two observing one of these at a time and doing a little experiment. I wanted to see what place you would get if you just folded everything and hypothetically didn't win anything.

What i did was a just started an imaginary balance at 300, and started in the BB position, subtracting the blinds every time it came around the the original BB (whoever was BB in the first hand). If the original BB got knocked out, I shifted to the person to the right of him.

Since I started with the BB, the balance of 300 was instantly taken to 270, then 255 after the SB. If I had started with the button, I'm sure this would have been different (and I might try it starting with the button, but not tonight.)

I was planning to do 30, but it got quite boring AND the results were so similar that I decided to stop after 9. These are from the $3.50 + $0.30 ones. Here are the results I got:

Hands lasted: The number of hands before the imaginary player got knocked out of the SnG. This includes the hand where the imaginary player is knocked out.
Placed: When the imaginary player is knocked out, this is the place that they would have gotten. This is like if someone who was really at the table had been knocked out in the same hand, the place they would have gotten.

1. Hands Lasted: 23 Placed: 6th
2. Hands Lasted: 22 Placed: 4th
3. Hands Lasted: 23 Placed: 4th
4. Hands Lasted: 21 Placed: 5th
5. Hands Lasted: 26 Placed: 5th
6. Hands Lasted: 23 Placed: 4th
7. Hands Lasted: 27 Placed: 4th
8. Hands Lasted: 24 Placed: 4th
9. Hands Lasted: 20 Placed: 5th

As you can obviously see, if you just folded everything you were dealt, you would consistently be the one that burst the bubble. Now imagine if you got just one good hand and doubled up. You would probably make it ITM. If you double up early on, just sit there and watch everyone else knock themselves out, unless you get a monster of course. This little test has convinced me that after I build up my Bankroll a little to contribute towards variance in these, I'm definitely moving to these as the main SnG I play.

[taipan168]

I played a few more of these and I think over the long term they are a goldmine. Most players don't seem to have any clue what they are doing, limping and calling raises when the lowest BB is 10% of their stack. Anybody with even the remotest idea of push/fold poker should do OK at these (and since they happen so quickly, the hourly rate should be good).

Be prepared for pretty bad swings though as you are very often getting it in either as a flip or a 60/40.

[yourfather]

I tried a few of these last night. I didnt do too well, getting outdraw on and took one second out of 4.

Regardless, I agree that the play is really bad. People were limping and standard raising with 10 BB or less. I like how quick they are as well.

I saw alot of call downs with A rag as well which is a good sign of how easy these can be to beat if you dont run bad.

Im sure these can be really frustrating though.

[taipan168]

I saw alot of call downs with A rag as well which is a good sign of how easy these can be to beat if you dont run bad.

Im sure these can be really frustrating though.

Yes, they can be frustrating when you get it in good and get sucked out on a number of times in a row. Nothing much you can really do other than count your Sklansky bucks though.

[Looming]

On a site like full tilt I try to avoid going all in pre-flop unless I have a solid hand. This Sng structure is good for those with bigger bank rolls (if you're playing $3.50-$7.00) and those who like to gamble.

[givememyleg]

haha these are funny

gotta love the limp folds

[givememyleg]

ahhh someone minraised half their stack then folded to my shoveeeee

[yourfather]

I played a bunch of these last night 4 tabling. They are fun but masochistic. Variance is huge. I recommend being overrolled for these if you play them.

[taipan168]

gotta love the limp folds

Yep, love to see 5 players limp, we shove JJ and all of them fold except some donk who rates his QTs. Your 2:1 does need to hold up against the donk though hence the high variance...

[checkingout]

I think I might have to try these now, a bit below what I normally play but they look like fun. Simplier decisions and easier to MTT IMO.