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JJ against 3bet pf

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  1. 07-08-2008 04:14 AM #1
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    givememyleg
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    Default JJ against 3bet pf

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    BB ($20)
    Hero ($195.50)
    MP1 ($60.40)
    MP2 ($99.50)
    CO ($100)
    Button ($39.70)
    SB ($87.50)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
    Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero calls $7.

    Flop: ($21.50) 2, T, 3 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP2 bets $16, Hero calls $16.

    Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP2 bets $20, Hero folds.

    Final Pot: $53.50

    MP2 is 15/15 over only 25 hands and this is his first 3bet. Given I'm UTG I thought I had to fold. Comments anywhere appreciated.
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  2. 07-08-2008 04:25 AM #2
    daven
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    pre-flop is ok if villain's range includes AK and if you play the flop well. But you need a plan.
    If you're happy to check-call a psb, but not happy to get it in vs a 1/2psb turn bet then there is something wrong.

    Lead flop 3/4psb, fold to push is far healthier and gets rid of QQ a lot.

    As played I probably block turn for $15
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  3. 07-08-2008 04:43 AM #3
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    Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

    And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.
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  4. 07-08-2008 05:15 AM #4
    daven
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    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg
    Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

    And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.
    Are you check-calling the flop to get a cheap show-down vs AK? Or? I still don;t like your flop/turn line as a combination.

    You are right, there is nothing wrong with not calling that turn bet as played, which suggests that a mistake was made on the flop, or in checking the turn.

    but, heck, my lines are far from great! I'm replying to hands here more often for a while to get critique on my hand analysis as much as anything - cos if I think something is right and nobody else does, then it's likely i should re-think
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  5. 07-08-2008 05:43 AM #5
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    I like the way you played it!
    As your UTG and you called his 3bet villain needs to be wary. And I don't think there are a lot of villain who 2barrils low boards against UTG raisers without a hand!
    Quote Originally Posted by daven
    Lead flop 3/4psb, fold to push is far healthier and gets rid of QQ a lot.
    The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also) and you're basically saying: push and I'll fold. With KK+ you would check-raise.
    Plus, QQ will never fold here.
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  6. 07-08-2008 05:47 AM #6
    aka_red
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    i dont think you can play this hand profitably given circumstances. i fold to 3b.
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  7. 07-08-2008 05:56 AM #7
    daven
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy44
    The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also).
    or TT/KK/AA
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  8. 07-08-2008 06:13 AM #8
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    I think we can just about call pre for set value but then I would c/f flop, reverse implied odds = ewww.
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  9. 07-08-2008 06:25 AM #9
    aka_red
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    make it 4$ pf.
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  10. 07-08-2008 11:04 AM #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by daven
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy44
    The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also).
    or TT/KK/AA
    You never bet 3/4 with the nuts OOP against a 3bettor! You might bet 1/2 or 1/3.
    With KK+ you will check-raise this FLOP.
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  11. 07-08-2008 11:36 AM #11
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    Yeah there's no way I'm leading this flop without history.
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  12. 07-08-2008 11:48 AM #12
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    Call pre all day

    I probly dump on the flop... you may fold the best hand once in a while but being oop, you are not going to be able to play the rest of the hand profitably against a semi-competent oppent.
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  13. 07-08-2008 03:05 PM #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by daven
    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg
    Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

    And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.
    Are you check-calling the flop to get a cheap show-down vs AK? Or? I still don;t like your flop/turn line as a combination.

    You are right, there is nothing wrong with not calling that turn bet as played, which suggests that a mistake was made on the flop, or in checking the turn.

    but, heck, my lines are far from great! I'm replying to hands here more often for a while to get critique on my hand analysis as much as anything - cos if I think something is right and nobody else does, then it's likely i should re-think
    Yeah I don't like my flop/turn either - I think you're right the mistake is on the flop.

    Thanks everyone for the advice - looks like I should just c/f.

    Question - let's say instead of JJ I had QQ, how would my plan change?
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  14. 07-08-2008 03:12 PM #14
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    I c/f this flop with JJ. With QQ, IDK, something makes me want to go to showdown. Like OMG ITS QQ! C/F the flop with QQ just feels epic weak but I think its correct.
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  15. 07-08-2008 05:12 PM #15
    pokerfan
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    i call his flop bet with QQ and fold to his double barrel. I think you should raise to $4 UTG with JJ and call his 3 bet for set value definitely. By the way, i only like $3 preflop raise in late positions.
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  16. 07-08-2008 08:35 PM #16
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    I've been experimenting with 4xBB in EP/MP and 3x LP and SB. I think I like it, but the jury's still out on 3x in the SB.
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  17. 07-08-2008 08:55 PM #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keilah
    but the jury's still out on 3x in the SB.
    i think 3x from the SB with a wide range gives great odds for them to call and position rape you.
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  18. 07-09-2008 12:57 AM #18
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    Yeah I'm going to start doing 4x from EP and sb, and 3x elsewhere.
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